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The lack of kindness on Tinder is a know problem - so many female friends showed me outright rude screenshots, especially after these women said they are femini

by stared 8y ago

The lack of kindness on Tinder is a know problem - so many female friends showed me outright rude screenshots, especially after these women said they are feminist, or turned down some sex offer. But... why not introduce some rating? (As in Uber or so.) I know it sounds Black Mirror-ish, but if it would penalize rude guys, it would be a win for everyone (incentive + filtering + hetero-women more interested in using this app.)

dgellow 8y ago
One person’s perception of rudeness will be what someone else will find funny or honest or ... . Not excusing bad behaviors, it’s just important to consider that looking for a mate/date/kookup is really different for different people, where looking for a car driver will be almost the same for anyone (I would expect, though I’m sure there is also some subtlety there), I don’t think a similar rating system would be adapted.
- stared 8y ago
  Things like "DTF?" in the first line can be considered rude or direct and honest. Things I saw were like "ugly feminist bitch" after a (previously) "nice" guy had been turned down. It leaves much less space to interpret it as "funny or honest". Plus, all ratings are average. If you are rude to 50% people, it is more than being rude to 5% (maybe actually misunderstanding)%.
  - turtlecloud 8y ago
    The tough thing with dating apps is effectively conveying emotion in a text. that the old adage rings true.. “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it”
  - dgellow 8y ago
    Do you mean that if you’re rude to 50% you should have a lower grade, so be teamed with other low grades mates? If yes, how is that a good system? If not, then what else do you envision? That’s even without considering that people won’t review fairly, and will abuse such a system and the new power they get by having a higher rank than others.
    - stared 8y ago
      Making rank visible near picture. And if low, some example quotations.
finnthehuman 8y ago
>I know it sounds Black Mirror-ish, but if it would penalize rude guys, it would be a win for everyone You know the message of the Nosedive episode of Black Mirror was that such systems would be a dystopia rather than a “win for everyone,” right? The episode’s point included the idea well-intentioned social system engineering can backfire, which is a well accepted trueism in the social sciences. And your refutation is basically as long as women don’t have to see anything they don’t like, it’s worth it.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  I found a much subtler message hidden in that episode, very similar to all the other similarly subtle messages sprinkled throughout the show. Everybody there was acting perfectly predictably, and rationally, and the consequences for the behavior displayed were eerily similar to what they would have been without all the technological pomp. The technology winds up simply making the normal progression of the events of life happen just a bit faster. Hard working, social people that you would expect to be successful still become successful, and entitled people like the protagonist of the episode has that entitlement drawn out far more quickly than we would ordinarily see. There's no dystopia, just unfamiliarity with the setting that the show exploits to dramatic effect to make you think it's dystopia. But if the world of Black Mirror is dystopic, then you can level the same charge at today's technological milieu, and yesterday's, all the way back to sharpened sticks and stones. Technology doesn't destroy our humanity, it amplifies it. Real dystopic fiction, like 1984 or A Clockwork Orange, is dystopic because it magnifies the human selfish instinct such that it turns into the villain of the story. But Black Mirror contains no grand villain, just plain old ordinary drama. The characters fight each other, not an immense system that's hellbent on destroying human dignity.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    There definitely is dystopia in that episode. Today I don't need to "be social" in order to be succesful, in that episode I would be a homeless outcast.
    - 8y ago
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I guarantee you it would be used to penalize unattractive people and people who they decided they just weren't interested in. It's the "downvote for disagreement" problem.
- stared 8y ago
  True, but there are workarounds. Sentiment analysis or event a simpler solution - requires to highlight a sentence. In virtually all abusive messages showed by female friends of mines, it was plain obvious.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    Maybe just simplify the question? "Have you had a bad experience with this person?" But there already is a report button on Tinder...
  - jcampbell1 8y ago
    I am pretty sure they are already doing this. Whenever you have a bunch of good conversations, the number of people in your Gold list explodes. Tinder will show your profile to more people when your chat behavior is good. I am certain Bumble searches the text for phone numbers and if when girls start giving you theirs, your profile gets shown to the whole city.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    As technologists, it is tempting for us to try and solve fundamentally social problems with technology, but consider the old saying: "When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".
- jcampbell1 8y ago
  Most girls I know don't really care about the lewd messages. It is the nice guys that turn out to be unemployed narcissists on the first date that are the problem for them. Lewd assholes are fine, lewd assholes behind masks are dangerous.
laurieg 8y ago
As a guy, if you use Tinder it feels like every woman is just looking for a reason to disqualify as a date (because they have so many options). If you register an account as the opposite sex it is incredibly informative. Women essentially swamped with matches. They ignore everyone but the few they want to talk to. Men basically swipe right on everyone, there's no point on making a choice because women have the real choice. It's fascinating how a symmetric system can turn so asymmetric so quickly.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  We are talking about a dynamic that is naturally asymmetric, though. Women (at least in today’s world) always have the luxury of selectivity, whether or not an app is involved. Before apps, it was the same numbers game where the man would go out to the club and approach hundreds of women, hoping at least one would be receptive. Have you ever heard of this happening with the genders reversed?

by stared 8y ago

dgellow 8y ago

One person’s perception of rudeness will be what someone else will find funny or honest or ... . Not excusing bad behaviors, it’s just important to consider that looking for a mate/date/kookup is really different for different people, where looking for a car driver will be almost the same for anyone (I would expect, though I’m sure there is also some subtlety there), I don’t think a similar rating system would be adapted.

stared 8y ago
Things like "DTF?" in the first line can be considered rude or direct and honest. Things I saw were like "ugly feminist bitch" after a (previously) "nice" guy had been turned down. It leaves much less space to interpret it as "funny or honest". Plus, all ratings are average. If you are rude to 50% people, it is more than being rude to 5% (maybe actually misunderstanding)%.
- turtlecloud 8y ago
  The tough thing with dating apps is effectively conveying emotion in a text. that the old adage rings true.. “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it”
- dgellow 8y ago
  Do you mean that if you’re rude to 50% you should have a lower grade, so be teamed with other low grades mates? If yes, how is that a good system? If not, then what else do you envision? That’s even without considering that people won’t review fairly, and will abuse such a system and the new power they get by having a higher rank than others.
  - stared 8y ago
    Making rank visible near picture. And if low, some example quotations.

finnthehuman 8y ago

>I know it sounds Black Mirror-ish, but if it would penalize rude guys, it would be a win for everyone You know the message of the Nosedive episode of Black Mirror was that such systems would be a dystopia rather than a “win for everyone,” right? The episode’s point included the idea well-intentioned social system engineering can backfire, which is a well accepted trueism in the social sciences. And your refutation is basically as long as women don’t have to see anything they don’t like, it’s worth it.

vinceguidry 8y ago
I found a much subtler message hidden in that episode, very similar to all the other similarly subtle messages sprinkled throughout the show. Everybody there was acting perfectly predictably, and rationally, and the consequences for the behavior displayed were eerily similar to what they would have been without all the technological pomp. The technology winds up simply making the normal progression of the events of life happen just a bit faster. Hard working, social people that you would expect to be successful still become successful, and entitled people like the protagonist of the episode has that entitlement drawn out far more quickly than we would ordinarily see. There's no dystopia, just unfamiliarity with the setting that the show exploits to dramatic effect to make you think it's dystopia. But if the world of Black Mirror is dystopic, then you can level the same charge at today's technological milieu, and yesterday's, all the way back to sharpened sticks and stones. Technology doesn't destroy our humanity, it amplifies it. Real dystopic fiction, like 1984 or A Clockwork Orange, is dystopic because it magnifies the human selfish instinct such that it turns into the villain of the story. But Black Mirror contains no grand villain, just plain old ordinary drama. The characters fight each other, not an immense system that's hellbent on destroying human dignity.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  There definitely is dystopia in that episode. Today I don't need to "be social" in order to be succesful, in that episode I would be a homeless outcast.
  - 8y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I guarantee you it would be used to penalize unattractive people and people who they decided they just weren't interested in. It's the "downvote for disagreement" problem.

stared 8y ago
True, but there are workarounds. Sentiment analysis or event a simpler solution - requires to highlight a sentence. In virtually all abusive messages showed by female friends of mines, it was plain obvious.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Maybe just simplify the question? "Have you had a bad experience with this person?" But there already is a report button on Tinder...
- jcampbell1 8y ago
  I am pretty sure they are already doing this. Whenever you have a bunch of good conversations, the number of people in your Gold list explodes. Tinder will show your profile to more people when your chat behavior is good. I am certain Bumble searches the text for phone numbers and if when girls start giving you theirs, your profile gets shown to the whole city.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  As technologists, it is tempting for us to try and solve fundamentally social problems with technology, but consider the old saying: "When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".
jcampbell1 8y ago
Most girls I know don't really care about the lewd messages. It is the nice guys that turn out to be unemployed narcissists on the first date that are the problem for them. Lewd assholes are fine, lewd assholes behind masks are dangerous.

laurieg 8y ago

As a guy, if you use Tinder it feels like every woman is just looking for a reason to disqualify as a date (because they have so many options). If you register an account as the opposite sex it is incredibly informative. Women essentially swamped with matches. They ignore everyone but the few they want to talk to. Men basically swipe right on everyone, there's no point on making a choice because women have the real choice. It's fascinating how a symmetric system can turn so asymmetric so quickly.

ryandrake 8y ago
We are talking about a dynamic that is naturally asymmetric, though. Women (at least in today’s world) always have the luxury of selectivity, whether or not an app is involved. Before apps, it was the same numbers game where the man would go out to the club and approach hundreds of women, hoping at least one would be receptive. Have you ever heard of this happening with the genders reversed?