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Strongly against making drugs with very low potential for harm illegal, but that’s definitely not tobacco related products. I feel it undermines the logic base
by aplummer 8y ago
Strongly against making drugs with very low potential for harm illegal, but that’s definitely not tobacco related products.
I feel it undermines the logic based argument to legalize recreational drugs. As well, smoking costs 3x the tax revenue from society, coming from single payer, I don’t love paying for people picking up smoking / vaping since the dangers were known.
- pstuart 8y agoHow's well is that working with meth? Opiates? I've lost family and friends to both -- they were not "protected from themselves" Lost my mother to alcohol, which is legal and kills 10s of thousands in the US each year. I don't have an easy answer, but I do know that our current approach is wrong.
- aviv 8y agoSo why are you against making this kind of crap illegal? Why are we doing everything we can to protect society from terrorism, but not so with thousands of car deaths due to alcohol consumption?
- macspoofing 8y agoOr Sugar. Sugar actually kills.
- votepaunchy 8y agoCorn kills. Sugar is typically high fructose corn syrup in America.
- macspoofing 8y agoDoes it matter? How quantities of any kind of sugar (whether it be in the form of carbs or fructose) are really bad for you.
- aviv 8y agoDon't tell me you're one of those that thinks sugar from whole fruit is bad for you?
- hopler 8y agoYou mean like how Steve jobs killed his pancreas and himself by eating only fruit? Your naturalistic fallacy aside, modern fruits ate not natural; they have been genetically engineered to be as sugary as possible.
- aviv 8y agoLOL, the Steve Jobs argument. He's the goto scapegoat whenever someone wants to spread falsehood on raw foods, fruits in particular. He wasn't fruitarian. In his early years (20s) perhaps more so, but in the years before his cancer was discovered he was known to consume lots of vegan junk food and processed foods, oils and salt - his body was massively acidic. In the couple years before his death he ended up consuming a lot of dairy and excess protein - both killers and horrible to the human body. So one semi-fruitarian dies, fruits are evil. Millions of people die from diets that consist heavily of processed meat, soda, dairy, excess protein, processed sugar and other garbage - nothing to see here.
- macspoofing 8y agoSugar is sugar. Having said that, as fruit also contain fiber and other things it would be hard to ingest an unhealthy amount if that was your primary source of sugar. It's also why all-natural fruit juices are as bad (or worse) for you as soft-drinks.
- aplummer 8y agoWait I’m confused, Weed: killed few people Opiates: killed many people I’m saying 1) should be illegal and 2) should not How you actually treat criminals however, totally for the Nordic model, not the USA model.
- sealjam 8y agoI read the parent post as highlighting the fact that the illegality of opiates/meth is not helping to protect people from them. Perhaps the implication is that we need other solutions aside from making things illegal.
- v_lisivka 8y agoLegality of alcohol doesn't protect either.
- hopler 8y agoOpiates aren't a catastrophe because they are illegal, they are a catastrophe because government prosecutes the victims and not the perpetrators (manufacters/dealers).
- pstuart 8y agoWhen my brother overdosed on heroin he was shooting up unknown quality/potency. If he was using legal dope he'd likely not have made that mistake. I agree with the government victimization but legal drugs implies purity and labeling requirements to allow choices to be better informed.
- baddox 8y agoI’ve also heard that smokers cost society less because they die earlier.
- baddox 8y agoHere’s a Dutch report: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748...
- nv-vn 8y agoWe absolutely do not know the dangers of vaping... what dangers exactly are there? Apart from increasing your heart rate it doesn't seem to be responsible for much harm at all.
- DanBC 8y agoSeveral flavours are linked to lung damage.
- y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago> Several flavours are linked to lung damage. If this is the case, then some flavors are dangerous, not vaping in itself.
- cyphar 8y agoThere was a study recently showing that vaping negatively affects protective cells in lung tissue which may result in lung inflammation[1]. Their results were not related to flavours -- they specifically used flavourless fluid, instead they were concerned with vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol (the primary components of e-cigatette fluid). Obviously vaping is preferable to smoking, but I have serious doubts that inhaling air isn't preferable to vaping. [1]: https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161
- DanBC 8y agoBut see also the diacetyl "butter" flavours (and also "popcorn lung") https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ypwadv/how-butter-flavored-e-cigs-are-fueling-a-crucial-vaping-controversy https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ypwadv/how-butter...
- snarfy 8y ago> As well, smoking costs 3x the tax revenue from society, Source? Are you sure it's not 5x or 10x? Because all of the evidence I've ever seen says smoking cost society less - smokers die sooner. [1] [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748...
- y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago> I don’t love paying for people picking up smoking / vaping since the dangers were known Are the dangers of vaping known tho? Is there any study that shows it causes physical damage like inhaling smoke from a burning cigarette? Is seems fairly obvious to me that inhaling vegetable glycerin and nicotine does not cause any harm. The only "problem" is the nicotine addiction, but that one does not cause any physical harm, it just costs money to buy refills.
- EamonnMR 8y agoThe dangers of vaping are unknown, however the fear is that once hooked on Nicotine users may switch to cigarettes.
- hopler 8y agoVapes like Juul are also way easier to consume to excess, for reasons the OP explains.
- cyphar 8y ago> Is seems fairly obvious to me that inhaling vegetable glycerin and nicotine does not cause any harm. Why is that obvious? Lungs evolved to absorb oxygen not vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol. In fact there is some evidence that it may be harmful to protective cells in the lung walls, potentially increasing the risk of lung inflammation[1]. Obviously we'll have to wait 30 years to know of any long-term effects, but maybe common sense would be a better life decision if you don't want to be a test subject. I would also suggest that there is a risk of cheap e-cigarettes causing even more serious harm because they might have contaminants in the fluid being inhaled. [1]: https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161
- y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago> https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/12/1161 Thank you I didn't know about this.
- 8y ago