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What nicotine products besides tobacco kill people? Patches? Gum? Sure the level of use is a bit concerning, but I don’t think it’s going to be the health epid

What nicotine products besides tobacco kill people? Patches? Gum? Sure the level of use is a bit concerning, but I don’t think it’s going to be the health epidemic that the media is making it out to be.

carbocation 8y ago
Does your argument hinge upon an absence of evidence, or do you have evidence to support your position?
- thatswrong0 8y ago
  Do you always demand that every person who comments on a subject compile a meta-study for your perusal? From what I’ve read, most of the damage from cigarettes comes not from nicotine but other carcinogens present along with the combustion. Of course more research needs to be done on nicotine itself as well as the other compounds present in vaping liquids.. but nothing I’ve read has indicated that nicotine is even close to being as dangerous on its own. It’s probably not harmless, but then again, many things people consume on a daily basis, like coffee, probably aren’t either.
  - carbocation 8y ago
    Yes, for people making bold claims about a major public health threat, I don’t see why I shouldn’t. The subtext is that this is a field that I’m very familiar with, but I’m willing to have someone show me evidence that I have missed. It’s hard to keep up with it all.
- fromthestart 8y ago
  Do you assume that every substance you're unfamiliar with is a poison? You're going on about a "public health threat" but the only evidence you have for your hysteria is a circumstantial link between nicotine and carcinogens in cigarettes? What proof do you have that nicotine itself is harmful? The other components to vape juice are safe for consumption. Sure, that doesn't mean they're safe to inhale, but you're talking about 1-3 total substances, which are not known carcinogens, versus what, 100s of carcinogenic compounds in cigs? You're biased by an emotional association between the words nicotine and cigarettes.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    This is a rude response to someone who is, believe it or not, something close to an actual domain expert on the topic we're discussing. Even if he wasn't, the way you're responding to him wouldn't be acceptable on HN, but making personal attacks to try to chase an expert out of a thread is even worse. Please don't comment on HN like this.
hannasanarion 8y ago
"insufficient data" isn't the same as "totally harmless" Until now, nicotine was used exclusively by smokers and ex-smokers. Reducing smoking was the goal, and anything less harmful than smoking was considered a win.
- kbenson 8y ago
  > Until now, nicotine was used exclusively by smokers and ex-smokers. You're forgetting chewing tobacco. Also, I hardly think we have insufficient data on nicotine itself, with all the people using and the testing done on nicotine patches. Those had to go through FDA approval.
  - hannasanarion 8y ago
    Yeah, and it's FDA certified to be less deadly than cigarettes. Forgive me for having a higher standard for calling something "healthy"
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Until now, nicotine was used exclusively by smokers and ex-smokers. No, there have been people who dip without smoking. But that doesn't really change the equation much.
heavyset_go 8y ago
I've heard that certain compounds in tobacco act as MAOIs that synergize with nicotine, creating a more rewarding experience. People that would have never smoked before they were introduced to vaping might be more likely to try and enjoy tobacco products because they feel better than nicotine does on its own.

carbocation 8y ago

Does your argument hinge upon an absence of evidence, or do you have evidence to support your position?

thatswrong0 8y ago
Do you always demand that every person who comments on a subject compile a meta-study for your perusal? From what I’ve read, most of the damage from cigarettes comes not from nicotine but other carcinogens present along with the combustion. Of course more research needs to be done on nicotine itself as well as the other compounds present in vaping liquids.. but nothing I’ve read has indicated that nicotine is even close to being as dangerous on its own. It’s probably not harmless, but then again, many things people consume on a daily basis, like coffee, probably aren’t either.
- carbocation 8y ago
  Yes, for people making bold claims about a major public health threat, I don’t see why I shouldn’t. The subtext is that this is a field that I’m very familiar with, but I’m willing to have someone show me evidence that I have missed. It’s hard to keep up with it all.
fromthestart 8y ago
Do you assume that every substance you're unfamiliar with is a poison? You're going on about a "public health threat" but the only evidence you have for your hysteria is a circumstantial link between nicotine and carcinogens in cigarettes? What proof do you have that nicotine itself is harmful? The other components to vape juice are safe for consumption. Sure, that doesn't mean they're safe to inhale, but you're talking about 1-3 total substances, which are not known carcinogens, versus what, 100s of carcinogenic compounds in cigs? You're biased by an emotional association between the words nicotine and cigarettes.
- tptacek 8y ago
  This is a rude response to someone who is, believe it or not, something close to an actual domain expert on the topic we're discussing. Even if he wasn't, the way you're responding to him wouldn't be acceptable on HN, but making personal attacks to try to chase an expert out of a thread is even worse. Please don't comment on HN like this.

hannasanarion 8y ago

"insufficient data" isn't the same as "totally harmless" Until now, nicotine was used exclusively by smokers and ex-smokers. Reducing smoking was the goal, and anything less harmful than smoking was considered a win.

kbenson 8y ago
> Until now, nicotine was used exclusively by smokers and ex-smokers. You're forgetting chewing tobacco. Also, I hardly think we have insufficient data on nicotine itself, with all the people using and the testing done on nicotine patches. Those had to go through FDA approval.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  Yeah, and it's FDA certified to be less deadly than cigarettes. Forgive me for having a higher standard for calling something "healthy"
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Until now, nicotine was used exclusively by smokers and ex-smokers. No, there have been people who dip without smoking. But that doesn't really change the equation much.

heavyset_go 8y ago

I've heard that certain compounds in tobacco act as MAOIs that synergize with nicotine, creating a more rewarding experience. People that would have never smoked before they were introduced to vaping might be more likely to try and enjoy tobacco products because they feel better than nicotine does on its own.