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As an American that live in France for several years, the high-speed trains were great for certain trips, but they wouldn't work in the U.S. because they are no
by joshuaheard 8y ago
As an American that live in France for several years, the high-speed trains were great for certain trips, but they wouldn't work in the U.S. because they are not as efficient. By efficiency I mean cost over time. For instance, to go from Paris to Bordeaux by car is about 8 hours, the price of gas is $5/gal and all the freeways are toll roads. Total trip would be about the same to fly. To Fly is about $500 for one-hour flight. The train is about 8 hours and $100.
In America, gas is $3-4/gal, the flight from LA to SF (about 1 hour) is $200. Also, don't forget European cities were designed for pedestrians, while in the US, they were built for cars.
I would say the most efficient way to travel in France is by train, while in the US, it is by plane.
- gniv 8y ago> The train is about 8 hours and $100. Small correction: It's 2 hours from Paris to Bordeaux.
- joshuaheard 8y agoThat's true, I should have used Nice as my example.
- eli_gottlieb 8y agoNah, that's basically just a knock-down argument that high-speed rail really works: it takes one fourth of the time by train as it does by car, and is less expensive.
- melling 8y agoYeah, and you should have included the time to get to the airport. The need to arrive early, trains make a few stops between destinations, etc That plane leaving SFO isn’t stopping in Fresno. I suppose when you’re contriving an example, you’re hoping that people aren’t really paying attention.
- melling 8y agoYes, i’ve been hearing it won’t work for about 40 years. You’re wrong, of course. Unfortunately, now it’s incredibly expensive to build HSR. China, the same size as the US, will have 25,000 miles of HSR within a few years. Your calculus is wrong but let’s just check back in 2025. At some point, we’ll realize the advantage that all that HSR gives China.
- DeonPenny 8y agoThe difference is population density. It make sense for china because popution center need to pipe huge amounts of people around. That doesn't exist in the US where cars are more efficient.
- melling 8y agoHow’s the population density in Spain? They have more HSR than the US.
- DeonPenny 8y agoSpain has 3 times the population density of the US. The US would need 900 million people to have the same density.
- melling 8y agoI guess we’re lying with statistics. The population density of Kansas and Montana is quite low. America is quite large. However, Los Angeles and New York, San Francisco, etc are much more densely populated than Spain.
- Fricken 8y agoHere's a good video summarizing what China has done with high speed rail in a little over a decade: https://youtu.be/0JDoll8OEFE https://youtu.be/0JDoll8OEFE
- Youden 8y agoI don't think this impacts your argument but I don't think your numbers are a good illustration of price/time. - Paris to Bordeaux by plane is $430 (380EUR) right now, 2 days before Christmas but if you look at a less interesting time of year, like February, most days you're looking at $71 (62EUR) (per ITA Matrix with prices in EUR and Paris as sales city). - The flight itself is only 75 minutes but right now, it takes 45 minutes to get from Paris to CDG and 25 minutes from BOD to Bordeaux, for a total of 145 minutes travel time. Add at least say half an hour to get through security and get to your gate and you're at 175 minutes total trip time. - Paris to Bordeaux by train is $126 (111EUR) right now but like air, is much cheaper at a less interesting time of year. Most of January is only $18 (16 EUR) (per oui.sncf). - It takes 153 minutes from the center of Paris to the center of Bordeaux by train (metro to Gare Montparnasse, then TGV to Bordeaux). So right now, you're looking at $126 + 153 minutes for train or $430 + 175 minutes by plane. Later, you're looking at $18 + 153 minutes by train or $71 + 175 minutes by plane. For this particular trip, I think the train is clearly a winner.