3 ms·

Yeah absolutely, it's just this one guy's nailing that happened to become central around biblical retellings.

betterunix2 8y ago
Why should we believe that there is "one guy" whose crucifixion became central? Maybe crucifixion was just a well-known Roman execution method (remember that Christianity emerged during a period of Roman oppression).
- toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
  It would have only been ~100 years after Spartacus and his merry band were crucified along the road to Rome after the Third Servile War. Even if that was the only notorious crucifixion (and it was not), I think would be highly memorable around a century later.
  - idontpost 8y ago
    Crucifixion was to Roman society what telling brown-skinned people to "go back to their own country" is to American society: a common pastime.
    - dang 8y ago
      Please don't unsubstantive comments, and especially not racial or nationalistic flamebait, to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- anjbe 8y ago
  Crucifixion was a degrading and viscerally disturbing form of execution, with connotations not unlike hanging or the electric chair today. It was not the kind of thing to centralize one’s messianic cult around. The fact that it happened once is already so bizarre that the crucifixion is considered by historians to be one of the most certain truths of Jesus’ life story.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Crucifiction was a common form of execution at the time. One of the really bizarre things from our perspective is just how many people where executed back then.
    - anjbe 8y ago
      Crucifixion was indeed common. What I’m referring to as bizarre is the idea of the Messiah being subject to such a degrading, humiliating, torturous death, which ran totally counter to Jewish thought at the time (and indeed Jewish thought ever).
      - redial 8y ago
        Which is why christianity didn't find many followers among the Jews.
      - betterunix2 8y ago
        It runs counter to the mainstream Jewish thought of the past 1800 years regarding the messiah, but we are talking about a movement that was divergent from what ultimately became "mainstream Judaism" (i.e. the Pharisees). I would also point out that it is not so unique for a messianic claimant to be humiliated yet retain devoted followers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi Nor would violating mainstream religious views be a terribly unique event when a new movement is picking up followers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Frank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Frank It is also not as "bizarre" as you might think. Judaism two thousand years ago was highly fragmented, with many different movements all competing for followers and converts; there was no single body of "Jewish thought" at the time. There were different interpretations of the prophecies, and the earliest Christians followed one tradition of interpretations (this is clearly reflected in the gospels -- e.g. Matthew follows the Greco-Jewish tradition and the Septuagint).
- cat199 8y ago
  to those asserting crucifixion was rare, the account also has jesus as crucified simultaneously with two thieves.. i doubt stealing would be as severe a crime as treason, so this would indicate that it was a common form of punishment

Why should we believe that there is "one guy" whose crucifixion became central? Maybe crucifixion was just a well-known Roman execution method (remember that Christianity emerged during a period of Roman oppression).

toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
It would have only been ~100 years after Spartacus and his merry band were crucified along the road to Rome after the Third Servile War. Even if that was the only notorious crucifixion (and it was not), I think would be highly memorable around a century later.
- idontpost 8y ago
  Crucifixion was to Roman society what telling brown-skinned people to "go back to their own country" is to American society: a common pastime.
  - dang 8y ago
    Please don't unsubstantive comments, and especially not racial or nationalistic flamebait, to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
anjbe 8y ago
Crucifixion was a degrading and viscerally disturbing form of execution, with connotations not unlike hanging or the electric chair today. It was not the kind of thing to centralize one’s messianic cult around. The fact that it happened once is already so bizarre that the crucifixion is considered by historians to be one of the most certain truths of Jesus’ life story.
- Retric 8y ago
  Crucifiction was a common form of execution at the time. One of the really bizarre things from our perspective is just how many people where executed back then.
  - anjbe 8y ago
    Crucifixion was indeed common. What I’m referring to as bizarre is the idea of the Messiah being subject to such a degrading, humiliating, torturous death, which ran totally counter to Jewish thought at the time (and indeed Jewish thought ever).
    - redial 8y ago
      Which is why christianity didn't find many followers among the Jews.
    - betterunix2 8y ago
      It runs counter to the mainstream Jewish thought of the past 1800 years regarding the messiah, but we are talking about a movement that was divergent from what ultimately became "mainstream Judaism" (i.e. the Pharisees). I would also point out that it is not so unique for a messianic claimant to be humiliated yet retain devoted followers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi Nor would violating mainstream religious views be a terribly unique event when a new movement is picking up followers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Frank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Frank It is also not as "bizarre" as you might think. Judaism two thousand years ago was highly fragmented, with many different movements all competing for followers and converts; there was no single body of "Jewish thought" at the time. There were different interpretations of the prophecies, and the earliest Christians followed one tradition of interpretations (this is clearly reflected in the gospels -- e.g. Matthew follows the Greco-Jewish tradition and the Septuagint).
cat199 8y ago
to those asserting crucifixion was rare, the account also has jesus as crucified simultaneously with two thieves.. i doubt stealing would be as severe a crime as treason, so this would indicate that it was a common form of punishment