9 ms·
Nintendo didn't say or do anything, and now everyone and their brother can hook up a Wiimote to a computer and use it without issue. It doesn't seem to have neg
by dinedal 16y ago
Nintendo didn't say or do anything, and now everyone and their brother can hook up a Wiimote to a computer and use it without issue. It doesn't seem to have negatively impacted them at all.
I'm curious as to why MS thinks that this is going to hurt them.
- ahi 16y agoThe Kinect hardware might be a loss leader for Microsoft licensed software.
- sh1mmer 16y agoThat's also probably true of Nintendo. I doubt the hardware has anywhere close to the revenue margins of the games themselves, or licensing games. I think the real point in the original comment was that "serious" business is unlikely to build products competing with 360 on other platforms based on an open source driver for Kinect. E.g. Activision are extremely unlikely to build video games for PC based that require a Kinect. While there might be a small cost to Microsoft in selling a few Kinect bundles to hackers who don't have, and therefore buy games for, XBox 360 in the grand scheme of things it's hardly a threat to Mircosoft's new business model and this is just the standard corporate answer to anyone tampering with their products.
- tptacek 16y agoIt's Microsoft's prerogative to make business decisions for itself. They don't have to rationalize them against the C.W. of hacker forums.
- ShabbyDoo 16y agoNobody's saying it isn't their right. But, it's also my right to criticize their decision as being irrational, mean-spirited, or whatever. I do question whether Microsoft should have a "right" under the DMCA to prevent me from reverse engineering their protocols though. However, that's not an argument specific to any one product encumbered with anti-circumvention schemes.
- tptacek 16y agoI agree (up to the point where people try to start businesses based on circumvention techniques), but note that Microsoft actually doesn't have the right under DMCA to stop people from researching ways to break Kinect.
- frankus 16y agoI for one would be delighted if someone were to start a business making the razors-and-razorblades business model untenable. It's anticompetitive, distortionary, harms interoperability, and tempts businesses into spending endless amounts of money in an arms race that could better be spent making their products better.
- rapind 16y agoThat's just branding. There hasn't been consumer noticeable technological advancement in that market in probably 20 years or more. Honestly, is 10 blades going to increase my quality of life?
- tptacek 16y agoI'm an entrepreneur. I work in a field notorious for generating a feeling of entitlement among laypeople. So, I have a hard time sympathizing with arguments that boil down to "if company X makes cool peripheral Y, I am entitled to use it in way Z that is contrary to X's business interests". My unfounded suspicion is that if the tables were turned, and Microsoft focused its (considerable!) systems research capabilities on, say, disrupting Wattvision's business model, Hacker News wouldn't be leaping to the defense of forced interoperability.
- orangecat 16y ago"if company X makes cool peripheral Y, I am entitled to use it in way Z that is contrary to X's business interests". Er, yes? Claiming the opposite eviscerates property rights even more than the DMCA already does. My unfounded suspicion is that if the tables were turned, and Microsoft focused its (considerable!) systems research capabilities on, say, disrupting Wattvision's business model, Hacker News wouldn't be leaping to the defense of forced interoperability. Barring antitrust issues I have no legal or moral issues with that.
- grav1tas 16y agoThis is not true with Nintendo. They're anti-loss leader. Their philosophy calls for them to turn a profit on everything they do. Here's a quick blurb about it: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2006/09/7752.ars http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2006/09/7752.ars
- sh1mmer 16y agoNot to be too pedantic, but I deliberately choose my wording. I didn't say Nintendo made a loss on the hardware I said it likely has worse profit margins than selling games on their platform. Selling hardware may not actually hurt them, but it obviously their goal is to create a platform on which to upsell games.
- Splines 16y agoIt's rumored that it costs $150 for Microsoft to make a Kinect. http://www.develop-online.net/news/35198/Source-pins-Kinect-manufacturing-costs-to-150 http://www.develop-online.net/news/35198/Source-pins-Kinect-...
- ggruschow 16y agoHow can 2x low-res low-framerate webcams cost $150 when I can buy as many as I want new, shipped for $6 apiece?
- Simucal 16y agoProbably because it isn't just a webcam. It projects hundreds of IR dots all over its field of vision to help calculate depth. http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/11/04/what-kinect-looks-like-in-infrared-vision/ http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/11/04/what-kinect-looks-like-...
- ggruschow 16y agoI didn't say it was just a webcam. I said it should cost in the ballpark of 2x of them. Adding a $1 LED with hundreds of little holes in front of it doesn't change that. Note: I'm not making any statement about the possible awesomeness or lameness of the system. All I'm saying is the parts aren't expensive.
- tibbon 16y agoEven if so, unless someone comes out with a fantastic hack that goes completely mainstream- the potential damage is low. Most people who buy one will also buy the games.
- andywood 16y agoWhat's ironic is that Microsoft recruited a high-profile Wii hacker to work on Kinect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/johnny-chung-lee-joins-project-natal-team-puts-wii-hacking-expe/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/johnny-chung-lee-joins-pr...
- tuacker 16y agoI can't recall where or when I read it, but there was some talk that Kinect might also be used in an office setting. Microsoft may well be thinking about it and having an open source driver going around might cut into their plans they could have for Kinect. Edit: Kinect is part of Microsoft’s continuing quest to bring to market natural user interface (NUI) technologies, like touch, voice and gesture-recognition. Maybe it’s also part of a grand plan to force users to continue to exercise (even if that just means by waving a hand) while being increasingly tied to our PCs? http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-kinect-for-gamers-this-november-for-business-users-later/6519 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-kinect-for-gam...
- jonhendry 16y agoYou'd still have to buy the Kinect. And, I'd think, having useful Kinect-compatible software from other sources increases the value offered by the device, compared with what it would be if only Microsoft's software used it.
- ShabbyDoo 16y agoMicrosoft probably wants to continue with the razors & razorblades model of the XBox. So, maybe it wants to extract a toll from 3rd parties who produce products for the platform. No different really than the iPhone. I don't necessarily agree with DMCA restrictions on reverse engineering, but I do support Microsoft's right to sell a closed platform.
- someone_here 16y agoI just can't see myself flapping my arms to lower a projector or jumping up and down to mute a microphone.
- sorbus 16y agoOn the other hand, how cool would it be to wave your hand in front of your computer to mute it, or to flip through slides by moving your hands back and forth? Think less full-body motions and more simply tracking the position of hands, allowing for touch-screen like interactions without actually needing to touch the screen. There are lots of things I can see this being really useful for (especially 3d modeling; I recently saw an article about an iPad program which lets you model as if you were working with clay, and I would love to have something like that for my PC).