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This was the highlight for me: It turns out, feeling powerless boosted the mirror system — people empathized highly. But, Obhi says, "when people were feeling

by hliyan 8y ago

This was the highlight for me: It turns out, feeling powerless boosted the mirror system — people empathized highly. But, Obhi says, "when people were feeling powerful, the signal wasn't very high at all." From an evolutionary point of view, one can argue that individuals with less power need to seek collective advantages more than those with higher degrees of power. Empathy enables collective benefits.

WaddyJones 8y ago
Or does seeking collective benefits enable empathy?
scotty79 8y ago
The question is if empathy is just unnecessary or is it actively harmful for people with power. Does that part of the brain shut down as a simple energy saving measure because it's not necessary or is it actively suppressed because keeping it active would be harmful for individual and his genetic relatives or even the people he has power over?
- whatshisface 8y ago
  It might also shut down because they no longer direct their attention towards other people. When you have peers and superiors the emotions of others matter a lot more to your goals then when you only have subordinates.
- hliyan 8y ago
  Possibly the latter. I haven't heard of the brain resorting to such energy saving measures. I have another (unsubstantiated) theory too: there is a group advantage in those with power having reduced empathy. Individuals in leadership positions will need to direct the group in such ways that are beneficial to the group overall, but may be harmful to specific individuals. Leaders with high degrees of empathy might find this difficult. This is probably why the Myers-Briggs type "ENTJ" (often associated with leaders) is jokingly summarized as "I'm very sorry, but you have to die." [1] [1] https://www.librarything.com/topic/20927 https://www.librarything.com/topic/20927
  - scotty79 8y ago
    Brain has incredible energy saving measures. When you look through your eyes you process just few percent of the image. The rest is pretty much ignored because it usually isn't necessary for anything. When you are trying to think through something it's really hard and tiresome not to default to stereotypes and what you already figured out earlier about similar thing. Basically brain is as lazy as it can get away with.
- xte 8y ago
  This is modern myth, typical of dictatorial regimes. Even the most powerful people in the planet need others to exist and being powerful. People who deserve their power simply know even by instinct that they have to keep looking at the big pictures constantly to direct others correctly so they need to take emotions into account but remain detached and focused with ratio both to decide properly and to direct properly. People who not deserve their power but they still have it act as you describe.
  - scotty79 8y ago
    > ... remain detached ... That's what lack of empathy gives you. Empathy is not just knowing people emotions. It's feeling their emotions and being compelled to act according to them as if they were your own.
    - xte 8y ago
      When a ship is sinking anyone feel the emotion to help anyone, but officers have to know how much people they can save and how much people can die trying to save anyone so they need to remain detached. It's not a lack of empathy, it's the ancient at impossibilia nemo tenetur, powerless people simply do not know or understand or refuse to accept that in emergency situations, powerful people need to know, understand and do their best in any situation.
      - scotty79 8y ago
        You can't be detached when you have empathy. Empathy is exactly lack of detachment from emotions of others.
        xte 8y ago
        Perhaps it's not the right term in English (sorry, my English is really poor), for detached I do not mean "not feeling emotions" or "not caring" but feel the emotion remaining rational, cold enough to keep ratio drive decision not emotions. I do not know a specific English term for that... If you "have powers" you can't simply act for yourself you have to take any other under your power/your responsibilities into account and act for the best for all. Since that's normally/often hard/impossible you need to being able to take hard choices, certainly not emotion-less (if so you are really dangerous) but also certainly not driven by your emotions. A balance is needed, like in any "engineering project".

by hliyan 8y ago

WaddyJones 8y ago

Or does seeking collective benefits enable empathy?

scotty79 8y ago

The question is if empathy is just unnecessary or is it actively harmful for people with power. Does that part of the brain shut down as a simple energy saving measure because it's not necessary or is it actively suppressed because keeping it active would be harmful for individual and his genetic relatives or even the people he has power over?

whatshisface 8y ago
It might also shut down because they no longer direct their attention towards other people. When you have peers and superiors the emotions of others matter a lot more to your goals then when you only have subordinates.
hliyan 8y ago
Possibly the latter. I haven't heard of the brain resorting to such energy saving measures. I have another (unsubstantiated) theory too: there is a group advantage in those with power having reduced empathy. Individuals in leadership positions will need to direct the group in such ways that are beneficial to the group overall, but may be harmful to specific individuals. Leaders with high degrees of empathy might find this difficult. This is probably why the Myers-Briggs type "ENTJ" (often associated with leaders) is jokingly summarized as "I'm very sorry, but you have to die." [1] [1] https://www.librarything.com/topic/20927 https://www.librarything.com/topic/20927
- scotty79 8y ago
  Brain has incredible energy saving measures. When you look through your eyes you process just few percent of the image. The rest is pretty much ignored because it usually isn't necessary for anything. When you are trying to think through something it's really hard and tiresome not to default to stereotypes and what you already figured out earlier about similar thing. Basically brain is as lazy as it can get away with.
xte 8y ago
This is modern myth, typical of dictatorial regimes. Even the most powerful people in the planet need others to exist and being powerful. People who deserve their power simply know even by instinct that they have to keep looking at the big pictures constantly to direct others correctly so they need to take emotions into account but remain detached and focused with ratio both to decide properly and to direct properly. People who not deserve their power but they still have it act as you describe.
- scotty79 8y ago
  > ... remain detached ... That's what lack of empathy gives you. Empathy is not just knowing people emotions. It's feeling their emotions and being compelled to act according to them as if they were your own.
  - xte 8y ago
    When a ship is sinking anyone feel the emotion to help anyone, but officers have to know how much people they can save and how much people can die trying to save anyone so they need to remain detached. It's not a lack of empathy, it's the ancient at impossibilia nemo tenetur, powerless people simply do not know or understand or refuse to accept that in emergency situations, powerful people need to know, understand and do their best in any situation.
    - scotty79 8y ago
      You can't be detached when you have empathy. Empathy is exactly lack of detachment from emotions of others.
      - xte 8y ago
        Perhaps it's not the right term in English (sorry, my English is really poor), for detached I do not mean "not feeling emotions" or "not caring" but feel the emotion remaining rational, cold enough to keep ratio drive decision not emotions. I do not know a specific English term for that... If you "have powers" you can't simply act for yourself you have to take any other under your power/your responsibilities into account and act for the best for all. Since that's normally/often hard/impossible you need to being able to take hard choices, certainly not emotion-less (if so you are really dangerous) but also certainly not driven by your emotions. A balance is needed, like in any "engineering project".