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And, as Engelbart predicted, it has created a race. Lets take a look on online content, and we see that - because of vested interests - there's very little in-d

And, as Engelbart predicted, it has created a race. Lets take a look on online content, and we see that - because of vested interests - there's very little in-depth content available (at any price) and plenty of superficial content to foster the dangerous. This is simply the human condition. It was just as true of written language and illustration. Also, take a look at YouTube. There's quite a bit of in-depth content there in an absolute sense. 90% or more of it might be fluff, but as Theodore Sturgeon observed, 90% of everything is "shite." Yet somehow, we muddle through. Young people with almost no resources and education still manage to create marvelous new culture, seemingly whole cloth. If we are to have a free society, that means people have to be free to make the wrong choice. Otherwise, we've empowered some entity or another to dictate to us what's acceptable and what's not, and we're no longer free.

badpun 8y ago
> This is simply the human condition. It was just as true of written language and illustration. There's a famous book, "The Revolt of the Masses" by Ortega, which claims the opposite. His conclusion is that, before mass media, common people were uneducated, but were actually quite aware of and humble about their ignorance - they did not think they understood how the world around them (incl. politics etc.) works. But after they've been exposed to the press and radio, which mostly gave them random, disjointed and poorly checked facts as well as opinion pieces (almost always with an agenda), they started to believe they understand more than they actually did. That's the "Revolt of the Masses" - masses of people started to have an opinion, and it was often ignorant and stupid.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Here, you're just talking about the operation of propaganda.
  - badpun 8y ago
    Not only. Haven’t you noticed how most people nowadays have opinions on subjects on which they’re (at best) poorly informed? It’s a form of “cognitive hubris”, and Ortega’s claim was that people weren’t neccessarily always like that. I imagine that, before mass media and education, people were a lot more focused on spiritual/religious things, and were leading heated debates in those areas. These were far less dangerous that ill-informed debates on real, important subjects.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      There's always been propaganda and toxic levels of tribalism. The question we should be asking ourselves, is how have the uncommon societies where principles and rule of law have won out functioned? People having parochial, uninformed opinions isn't new.
- ctchocula 8y ago
  Off-topic, but I finished reading your book suggestion "East of Eden" from this thread [1] and loved it. Do you have any other book recommendations? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18662420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18662420
8bitsrule 8y ago
Oh, did you see 'Fiddler on the Roof'? Singing the 'Tradition song', are we? I don't recall college being that sort of 'free society'. You learned from subject matter experts, and they indulged no nonsense. For me, my (public college) education was a revelation. I'm in favor of informed opinions, and of giving people the knowledge to protect themselves from exploitation. My BS tuition was about $500/year. Then the US was -helping- students. Then came Reagan. Now we prey on students, encumbering them with debts they many never pay off. And trade-school curricula. Making the wrong choices because of manufactured ignorance and consent isn't "freedom", it's the exact opposite. My god, this is Education 101 shit. It was 'simply the human condition' for a very long time. Back then there was an excuse. Now the excuse is profit-taking. From our grandchildren. They will come to curse us ... if they're allowed to live.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  You learned from subject matter experts, and they indulged no nonsense. Now we have far left activists posing as fake "experts" who engage in ideologically driven science denial, and administrators who aid and abet them, while trying their best to intimidate actual experts. My BS tuition was about $500/year. Then the US was -helping- students. Then came Reagan. Now we prey on students, encumbering them with debts they many never pay off. A lot of this is now perpetrated by administrators in higher education who are overwhelmingly on the far left of the political spectrum. Which staff are capturing more and more of the money that goes to salaries? It's not the professors.

badpun 8y ago

> This is simply the human condition. It was just as true of written language and illustration. There's a famous book, "The Revolt of the Masses" by Ortega, which claims the opposite. His conclusion is that, before mass media, common people were uneducated, but were actually quite aware of and humble about their ignorance - they did not think they understood how the world around them (incl. politics etc.) works. But after they've been exposed to the press and radio, which mostly gave them random, disjointed and poorly checked facts as well as opinion pieces (almost always with an agenda), they started to believe they understand more than they actually did. That's the "Revolt of the Masses" - masses of people started to have an opinion, and it was often ignorant and stupid.

stcredzero 8y ago
Here, you're just talking about the operation of propaganda.
- badpun 8y ago
  Not only. Haven’t you noticed how most people nowadays have opinions on subjects on which they’re (at best) poorly informed? It’s a form of “cognitive hubris”, and Ortega’s claim was that people weren’t neccessarily always like that. I imagine that, before mass media and education, people were a lot more focused on spiritual/religious things, and were leading heated debates in those areas. These were far less dangerous that ill-informed debates on real, important subjects.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    There's always been propaganda and toxic levels of tribalism. The question we should be asking ourselves, is how have the uncommon societies where principles and rule of law have won out functioned? People having parochial, uninformed opinions isn't new.
ctchocula 8y ago
Off-topic, but I finished reading your book suggestion "East of Eden" from this thread [1] and loved it. Do you have any other book recommendations? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18662420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18662420

8bitsrule 8y ago

Oh, did you see 'Fiddler on the Roof'? Singing the 'Tradition song', are we? I don't recall college being that sort of 'free society'. You learned from subject matter experts, and they indulged no nonsense. For me, my (public college) education was a revelation. I'm in favor of informed opinions, and of giving people the knowledge to protect themselves from exploitation. My BS tuition was about $500/year. Then the US was -helping- students. Then came Reagan. Now we prey on students, encumbering them with debts they many never pay off. And trade-school curricula. Making the wrong choices because of manufactured ignorance and consent isn't "freedom", it's the exact opposite. My god, this is Education 101 shit. It was 'simply the human condition' for a very long time. Back then there was an excuse. Now the excuse is profit-taking. From our grandchildren. They will come to curse us ... if they're allowed to live.

stcredzero 8y ago
You learned from subject matter experts, and they indulged no nonsense. Now we have far left activists posing as fake "experts" who engage in ideologically driven science denial, and administrators who aid and abet them, while trying their best to intimidate actual experts. My BS tuition was about $500/year. Then the US was -helping- students. Then came Reagan. Now we prey on students, encumbering them with debts they many never pay off. A lot of this is now perpetrated by administrators in higher education who are overwhelmingly on the far left of the political spectrum. Which staff are capturing more and more of the money that goes to salaries? It's not the professors.