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> it targets a price-averse demographic and is attempting to enter spaces that are very saturated This is accurately the current state of affairs, but these ar

> it targets a price-averse demographic and is attempting to enter spaces that are very saturated This is accurately the current state of affairs, but these are presented like conclusions you make on an industry that's a half century old at least. Gaming was a tiny niche not 15 years ago. It's entered the mainstream less than 10 years ago. It surpassed the film industry not 2 years ago in revenue. Pirated games almost had more volume than official sales in the 90s. All these things have changed, and are still changing. The games and games-adjacent industry is changing at a blinding speed. Maybe it'll turn into a steaming junkpile like the mobile app market. But maybe it won't. Kids are growing up with games normalized. Everyone is digital, and games are on anything digital. Incumbents that don't keep up will definitely dwindle in their influence. Big players trying to break into the industry have failed to understand the changes. Everyone said similar things when Twitch had a $2B acquisition by Amazon. I think it was underpriced, they are doing incredibly well. Price-averse? There are people literally throwing (digital) money at streamers just for fun, or to troll them, or to get their message announced on stream, or any number of random antics a streamer sets up. But really only in the last year. A rapidly changing industry is all about timing, and Xfire was sadly too soon, internet multiplayer gaming was not the mainstream and internet/tech infrastructure for it was not as mature either. No-one can tell these things in the present, but I think now is as good a time as any for Discord to do well. I think the industry and market, if not Discord itself (which has good execution for a fertile market), is still being seriously underestimated.

pdpi 8y ago
> Price-averse? There are people literally throwing (digital) money at streamers just for fun, or to troll them, or to get their message announced on stream, or any number of random antics a streamer sets up. The magic of twitch (and league of legends, and a few more) is that this is indeed a very price-sensitive crowd, but one that is willing to engage in a steady stream of frequent capex-style microtransactions while refusing to touch opex/subscription-based models.
- keerthiko 8y ago
  Most of these people also have $5/mo (or 'prime subs' that are free with amazon prime) subscriptions to one or more content creators in the community. I don't even have netflix or spotify or any subscription service, but I find it worth my $5/month to support the one streamer I enjoy tuning in to whenever I want some background entertainment while doing things around the house, and I think that's not an uncommon usecase.
  - spdionis 8y ago
    It's just that some of the streamers' content is so good that you don't need to pay them, you want to. It's also about personal connection with a community, which is something that was lacking on the internet after the era of forums died out.
ineedasername 8y ago
"It's entered the mainstream less than 10 years ago. It surpassed the film industry not 2 years" I don't know how you could think this unless you mean something like esports gaming. Gaming has been mainstream for quite some time, as early as the late 80's I'd say, complete with tv show, toy, and movie tie ins. PC gaming was a little less prevalent, they cost a lot more than consoles of the era.
- derefr 8y ago
  "Mainstream" as in something that you could have a reasonable expectation of having a coherent conversation about with any/every human being on the planet. (For example, "baseball" is relatively mainstream. "The Beatles", or "Elvis", slightly moreso.) As recently as 15 years ago, a "game console" (home or portable) was mostly something upper-middle-class children owned. 10 years ago, we all got smartphones, and those smartphones got app stores, and suddenly everyone owned a game console (whether they wanted to or not), with a constant stream of games—often free games—coming out for it. Mario got a movie in the 80s. Pokemon got Thanksgiving day floats in the 90s. But in neither of those cases was everyone playing; everyone was just aware of the brand (mostly because their kids were playing.) Meanwhile, if you union the sets of people who have played just Candy Crush, Minecraft, and Fortnite at this point, it's probably something like half the global population. Gaming really did "blow up" in the last decade.
  - freddie_mercury 8y ago
    > "Mainstream" as in something that you could have a reasonable expectation of having a coherent conversation about with any/every human being on the planet. (For example, "baseball" is relatively mainstream. "The Beatles", or "Elvis", slightly moreso.) This doesn't strike me as a useful definition of mainstream. I live in Vietnam and I guarantee you that no one here could tell you a single thing about baseball, The Beatles, or Elvis. Hell, just go to Australia/UK and no one will be able to explain baseball to you. Just like you can go to the US and no one understands cricket even though nearly 1 billion people (albeit primarily in the ex-British Commonwealth) do. In any case, your claims about the video game market 15 years ago (in 2003) aren't accurate. In 2003 videogames in the US sold 240 million units. 54% of American households bought a new videogame -- that's far from "mostly something upper-middle-class children owned". 15 years ago 32% of households were already playing video games on a mobile device (phone, PDA, handheld game system). 35% of parents said they played video games. 69% of households said they played computer & video games. 15 years ago 2/3rd of Americans played video games. It was already mainstream. Sure, it has gotten MORE popular since then. But that doesn't mean it wasn't mainstream.
dyarosla 8y ago
Amazon bought Twitch for $1B I believe, not $2B. How accurate are the the other figures you cited? If possible, please do provide links for figures you cite- it’s incredibly useful.
- callalex 8y ago
  The irony of complaining about a lack of sources without sourcing your own claim seems to be lost on you. Here, I did the work for you: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-buys-twitch-2014-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-buys-twitch-2014-8
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    There's no reason to be mean about it. You could have just politely provided the citation without the condescension. You made it personal.
- keerthiko 8y ago
  Good catch. They were all off the top of my head based on a lifetime of studying the game industry but not having the time to dig out citations for everything. They're mostly google-able, a few GDC "year in numbers" slides can show you the trends you're interested in. I'm probably off by a few years here and there. It was all just to illustrate the point that things are changing fast and not stopping, which I'm confident will stand.
ekianjo 8y ago
> entered the mainstream less than 10 years ago. Erm, Ever heard of the Sony Playstation? That was more than 20 years ago. You better recheck your timeline.

pdpi 8y ago

> Price-averse? There are people literally throwing (digital) money at streamers just for fun, or to troll them, or to get their message announced on stream, or any number of random antics a streamer sets up. The magic of twitch (and league of legends, and a few more) is that this is indeed a very price-sensitive crowd, but one that is willing to engage in a steady stream of frequent capex-style microtransactions while refusing to touch opex/subscription-based models.

keerthiko 8y ago
Most of these people also have $5/mo (or 'prime subs' that are free with amazon prime) subscriptions to one or more content creators in the community. I don't even have netflix or spotify or any subscription service, but I find it worth my $5/month to support the one streamer I enjoy tuning in to whenever I want some background entertainment while doing things around the house, and I think that's not an uncommon usecase.
- spdionis 8y ago
  It's just that some of the streamers' content is so good that you don't need to pay them, you want to. It's also about personal connection with a community, which is something that was lacking on the internet after the era of forums died out.

ineedasername 8y ago

"It's entered the mainstream less than 10 years ago. It surpassed the film industry not 2 years" I don't know how you could think this unless you mean something like esports gaming. Gaming has been mainstream for quite some time, as early as the late 80's I'd say, complete with tv show, toy, and movie tie ins. PC gaming was a little less prevalent, they cost a lot more than consoles of the era.

derefr 8y ago
"Mainstream" as in something that you could have a reasonable expectation of having a coherent conversation about with any/every human being on the planet. (For example, "baseball" is relatively mainstream. "The Beatles", or "Elvis", slightly moreso.) As recently as 15 years ago, a "game console" (home or portable) was mostly something upper-middle-class children owned. 10 years ago, we all got smartphones, and those smartphones got app stores, and suddenly everyone owned a game console (whether they wanted to or not), with a constant stream of games—often free games—coming out for it. Mario got a movie in the 80s. Pokemon got Thanksgiving day floats in the 90s. But in neither of those cases was everyone playing; everyone was just aware of the brand (mostly because their kids were playing.) Meanwhile, if you union the sets of people who have played just Candy Crush, Minecraft, and Fortnite at this point, it's probably something like half the global population. Gaming really did "blow up" in the last decade.
- freddie_mercury 8y ago
  > "Mainstream" as in something that you could have a reasonable expectation of having a coherent conversation about with any/every human being on the planet. (For example, "baseball" is relatively mainstream. "The Beatles", or "Elvis", slightly moreso.) This doesn't strike me as a useful definition of mainstream. I live in Vietnam and I guarantee you that no one here could tell you a single thing about baseball, The Beatles, or Elvis. Hell, just go to Australia/UK and no one will be able to explain baseball to you. Just like you can go to the US and no one understands cricket even though nearly 1 billion people (albeit primarily in the ex-British Commonwealth) do. In any case, your claims about the video game market 15 years ago (in 2003) aren't accurate. In 2003 videogames in the US sold 240 million units. 54% of American households bought a new videogame -- that's far from "mostly something upper-middle-class children owned". 15 years ago 32% of households were already playing video games on a mobile device (phone, PDA, handheld game system). 35% of parents said they played video games. 69% of households said they played computer & video games. 15 years ago 2/3rd of Americans played video games. It was already mainstream. Sure, it has gotten MORE popular since then. But that doesn't mean it wasn't mainstream.

dyarosla 8y ago

Amazon bought Twitch for $1B I believe, not $2B. How accurate are the the other figures you cited? If possible, please do provide links for figures you cite- it’s incredibly useful.

callalex 8y ago
The irony of complaining about a lack of sources without sourcing your own claim seems to be lost on you. Here, I did the work for you: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-buys-twitch-2014-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-buys-twitch-2014-8
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  There's no reason to be mean about it. You could have just politely provided the citation without the condescension. You made it personal.
keerthiko 8y ago
Good catch. They were all off the top of my head based on a lifetime of studying the game industry but not having the time to dig out citations for everything. They're mostly google-able, a few GDC "year in numbers" slides can show you the trends you're interested in. I'm probably off by a few years here and there. It was all just to illustrate the point that things are changing fast and not stopping, which I'm confident will stand.

ekianjo 8y ago

> entered the mainstream less than 10 years ago. Erm, Ever heard of the Sony Playstation? That was more than 20 years ago. You better recheck your timeline.