4 ms·

Yup, I'm very aware of the ongoing legal battle. I was trying to side-step discussion around it as Paul/Ritchie appear to present a very warped view of history/

Yup, I'm very aware of the ongoing legal battle. I was trying to side-step discussion around it as Paul/Ritchie appear to present a very warped view of history/reality via their blog. (For example, available data suggests P/R didn't actually substantially contribute to SC1/2.) A slightly better armchair take can be found at the UQM wiki [1] with actual lawyer commentary [2] Not taking any real sides here, I feel everyone involved is greater than I regardless of outcome, but do hope folks keep an open mind. [1] http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reiche_III_and_Robert_Frederick_Ford http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reich... [2] http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reiche_III_and_Robert_Frederick_Ford#Commentary_from_Lawyers http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reich...

setr 8y ago
I mean, the wiki page itself notes that multiple involved in making it support the idea they were creative leads in section 4.2[0], and they’ve been the front of every interview and on the game’s splash... if they weren’t actually doing much, this would’ve been in a controversy beginning in 1992, not today But I haven’t taken a look at the lawyer commentary. (I don’t know that I care enough to). But outside of the lawyers and stardock’s ceo commentary, I haven’t seem anything to imply they weren’t in charge of the whole thing. But anyways, I didn’t care for the stardock’s game, so it doesn’t matter what the truth is for me. I just want a proper sc3 (though I’m expecting they’ll still try to “modernize” itand toss out all the fun with it, as most decade-apart sequels go; but a man can dream, can’t he?) [0] http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reiche_III_and_Robert_Frederick_Ford#Why_does_it_matter_if_Reiche_and_Ford_call_themselves_the_.22creators_of_Star_Control.22.3F http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reich...
lixue 8y ago
"For example, available data suggests P/R didn't actually substantially contribute to SC1/2." That's a pretty wild claim to repeat. Not a single person on the original team agrees with it, and they've filed the copyright registration in court[1]. There's basically no evidence at all for that conclusion, except that Stardock made the claim (not supported it, not provided evidence of it, merely made the claim) Even if you do believe it, it's legally irrelevant as the team has signed the copyright over to them[2], and they released The Ur-Quan Masters back in 2003 using that copyright. I was a member of the community back in the lat 90s/early 00s and this was common knowledge even back then. [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/71/6/stardock-systems-inc-v-paul-reiche-iii/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/71/6/stardock-s... [2] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/64/5/stardock-systems-inc-v-paul-reiche-iii/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/64/5/stardock-s...
- withinrafael 8y ago
  That sounds like a fair take, IANAL. It's worth noting these registrations are dated 2017/2018, after the mud-flinging began. I wouldn't be shocked to hear they're invalid.
  - lixue 8y ago
    I really can't think of any reason they'd be invalid.Keep in mind copyright doesn't need to be registered to be valid - the actual copyright applies since they created the work, this is just a formal registration of that. There's also a ton of evidence supporting this copyright: The game CDs, manual, and box art all also say copyright Fred & Paul; there's email threads with Accolade discussing the possibility of merging the copyright and trademark; the fact that they published the game with no change other than removal of the "Star Control" trademark; and basically the entire team signing off on this. If someone else was claiming to have written it, I could see a credible conflict, but literally everyone involved in the actual creation of the game says that, yes, it was created by Fred & Paul.
    - withinrafael 8y ago
      Cool, thanks for the calm discourse lixue.
- JamesNK 8y ago
  Stardock has acted like scum through the whole ordeal. On top of the lawsuit against P/R... 1. They attempted to trick the UQM project leadership into signing a document that said Stardock owned the rights to everything in Star Control II. Stardock would then "generously" license rights back to the UQM project as "protection". In reality it would put the free game under Stardock's thumb[1] 2. There are leaked conversations of the owner of Stardock labeling the UQM forum and star-control.com as hostile to his company and how he is going to shut them down 3. There are two subreddits for Star Control. The fan owned /r/starcontrol and the Stardock owned /r/StarControlOfficial. An unknown reddit account took over /r/starcontrol under strange circumstances and sowed havoc for a couple of days before reddit intervened and removed the new mod. There are theories that Stardock was behind it. [1] http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=7396.0 http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=7396.0

setr 8y ago

I mean, the wiki page itself notes that multiple involved in making it support the idea they were creative leads in section 4.2[0], and they’ve been the front of every interview and on the game’s splash... if they weren’t actually doing much, this would’ve been in a controversy beginning in 1992, not today But I haven’t taken a look at the lawyer commentary. (I don’t know that I care enough to). But outside of the lawyers and stardock’s ceo commentary, I haven’t seem anything to imply they weren’t in charge of the whole thing. But anyways, I didn’t care for the stardock’s game, so it doesn’t matter what the truth is for me. I just want a proper sc3 (though I’m expecting they’ll still try to “modernize” itand toss out all the fun with it, as most decade-apart sequels go; but a man can dream, can’t he?) [0] http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reiche_III_and_Robert_Frederick_Ford#Why_does_it_matter_if_Reiche_and_Ford_call_themselves_the_.22creators_of_Star_Control.22.3F http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Stardock_Systems_Inc._v._Paul_Reich...

lixue 8y ago

"For example, available data suggests P/R didn't actually substantially contribute to SC1/2." That's a pretty wild claim to repeat. Not a single person on the original team agrees with it, and they've filed the copyright registration in court[1]. There's basically no evidence at all for that conclusion, except that Stardock made the claim (not supported it, not provided evidence of it, merely made the claim) Even if you do believe it, it's legally irrelevant as the team has signed the copyright over to them[2], and they released The Ur-Quan Masters back in 2003 using that copyright. I was a member of the community back in the lat 90s/early 00s and this was common knowledge even back then. [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/71/6/stardock-systems-inc-v-paul-reiche-iii/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/71/6/stardock-s... [2] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/64/5/stardock-systems-inc-v-paul-reiche-iii/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6239751/64/5/stardock-s...

withinrafael 8y ago
That sounds like a fair take, IANAL. It's worth noting these registrations are dated 2017/2018, after the mud-flinging began. I wouldn't be shocked to hear they're invalid.
- lixue 8y ago
  I really can't think of any reason they'd be invalid.Keep in mind copyright doesn't need to be registered to be valid - the actual copyright applies since they created the work, this is just a formal registration of that. There's also a ton of evidence supporting this copyright: The game CDs, manual, and box art all also say copyright Fred & Paul; there's email threads with Accolade discussing the possibility of merging the copyright and trademark; the fact that they published the game with no change other than removal of the "Star Control" trademark; and basically the entire team signing off on this. If someone else was claiming to have written it, I could see a credible conflict, but literally everyone involved in the actual creation of the game says that, yes, it was created by Fred & Paul.
  - withinrafael 8y ago
    Cool, thanks for the calm discourse lixue.
JamesNK 8y ago
Stardock has acted like scum through the whole ordeal. On top of the lawsuit against P/R... 1. They attempted to trick the UQM project leadership into signing a document that said Stardock owned the rights to everything in Star Control II. Stardock would then "generously" license rights back to the UQM project as "protection". In reality it would put the free game under Stardock's thumb[1] 2. There are leaked conversations of the owner of Stardock labeling the UQM forum and star-control.com as hostile to his company and how he is going to shut them down 3. There are two subreddits for Star Control. The fan owned /r/starcontrol and the Stardock owned /r/StarControlOfficial. An unknown reddit account took over /r/starcontrol under strange circumstances and sowed havoc for a couple of days before reddit intervened and removed the new mod. There are theories that Stardock was behind it. [1] http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=7396.0 http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=7396.0