4 ms·

> A system wherein there is 'no way out' i.e. they will punish anyone who leave (i.e. Brexit). Cry me a river. The EU has been nothing but patient with the clu

by redial 8y ago

> A system wherein there is 'no way out' i.e. they will punish anyone who leave (i.e. Brexit). Cry me a river. The EU has been nothing but patient with the clusterf*ck that has been UK's leadership trying to both leave the EU and take all it can from the EU, and actually due to pure incompetence, doing neither. Do you want to know what punishment for leaving a union really is? You should maybe ask the south and the confederates how their secession went down. > ... a completely unelected Executive making laws for one. A completely unresponsive government - they do make some neat laws, but they are fully elitist, they have a total disdain for anything populist. You mean like a QUEEN? Sometimes is almost too sad the level of pro-brexit "arguments" thrown around. There is no system in the world where all the decisions are made by "elected executives". There is nothing more elitist than a monarchy.

hnauz 8y ago
The queen does nothing. She's just there for appearances.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
"Do you want to know what punishment for leaving a union really is? You should maybe ask the south and the confederates how their secession went down." How repulsively arrogant. But thank you, have just very loudly and clearly proven my point for me. FYI - the EU has had as a strategy since day one to make Brexit impossible. It would be very easy to work out some kind of trade agreement with the UK. The EU has a priority to make Brexit impossible because once nations are successfully able to secede from the EU and 'get along rather well' - then other nations will want to do so as well. The obvious question then arises: why does it exist in the first place? The EEC is something that almost everyone wants/wanted. The political union is something that very few actually want. ... "You mean like a QUEEN?" The UK is a Constitutional Monarchy, and 'The Queen' does not make laws. Sweden, Belgium, Norway, Spain, Denmark, Netherlands, Luxembourg (from whence Junker comes) - among others, all members of the EU (save Norway, though almost) are have Constitutional Monarchies ... which begs the question: 'What is your point?' The European Commission is the only executive layer of Government in the Western world that is not elected. It was designed on purpose this way, so that they would't have to deal with populist initiatives, or pay attention in any way to democratic movement. The current Commission President, Jean-Claude Junker, after the French populations rejection of the Treaty of Lisbon said: "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’" The totalitarian arrogance on full display; they're indicating that they will essentially move forward with their plan, irrespective of what people want. This is why they dropped the plan to have referendums in the remaining EU countries: because the Treaty of Lisbon would have never prevailed. All of this is fundamentally anti-democratic and is one of the root causes of tension within the EU. The EU will continue to wither in lock-block crises: UK relationship, Italy banks on the brink, Greece in 'broken mode', periphery in misery with massive unemployment, East Europe in 'authoritarian mode', everyone arguing about migration, France 'broken' and no longer a balancing partner to Germany, and Germany reaping the rewards of a currency which suits them and nobody else - all of these existential issues will continue in perpetuity until there is fundamental change, either through popular revolt, or a change in operating paradigms. The political landscape in Europe has fully turned upside down, with Eurosceptic and populist parties gaining everywhere, and instead of trying to tackle the problem and understand the situation, the response by the EU leadership has simply been 'more Europe, more governance, more Union'. It's a terrible situation - and things are only getting worse: France has just had it's most violent uprising in 40 years, Macron is the second President in a row to have approval ratings at the 20% mark, early in his term. I believe if the Executive were more responsive, they'd have made some reasonable progress on issues such as migration, maybe even the Euro, and there'd be much less calamity.
- redial 8y ago
  > A system wherein there is 'no way out' i.e. they will punish anyone who leave (i.e. Brexit). How can someone mention "BREXIT" and that "THERE IS NO WAY OUT" in the same sentence is beyond me. Brexit is specifically invoking the procedure of THE WAY OUT. > 'What is your point?' What is YOUR point? You were the one that brought up non-elected leaders and elitism. The arrogance in here is astounding. Whatever is happening or not happening, or however incorrect you caricature of Europe is, have nothing to do with the fact that you were wrong about your two main original points. Own it. There is a procedure for a peaceful exit from the EU and having non elected officials has nothing to do with anything, as you clearly accepted when you were only making my point stronger in your so-called rebuttal. The UK wants to leave, fine leave. But they should be grownups about it and learn to live with the consequences of their decisions. They should stop blaming the EU for a mess they started themselves and haven't been brave enough to go through with. "But they are so mean, they won't let us keep all the benefits we had when we were part of the EU??!!." Crybabies.
- dang 8y ago
  You've crossed into incivility and flamewar as well. Tedious, lengthy spats like this are definitely not interesting by the standards of this site, so please don't do this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    I was attacked as having an opinion one could only have if one has 'fallen for propaganda' and that the 'Brexit' is tantamount to the Southern Confederates fighting for slavery. Those are the indignities, they are not mine. Though I agree it's getting off the topic of Huawei I'm sorry for that.
    - redial 8y ago
      This is disgusting. What I said was about the separation of the union, which is exactly the same case as brexit. I never even mentioned slavery. YOU DID.
dang 8y ago
Using HN for political flamewar will get you banned here. Please review the site rules and post civilly and substantively or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by redial 8y ago

hnauz 8y ago

The queen does nothing. She's just there for appearances.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"Do you want to know what punishment for leaving a union really is? You should maybe ask the south and the confederates how their secession went down." How repulsively arrogant. But thank you, have just very loudly and clearly proven my point for me. FYI - the EU has had as a strategy since day one to make Brexit impossible. It would be very easy to work out some kind of trade agreement with the UK. The EU has a priority to make Brexit impossible because once nations are successfully able to secede from the EU and 'get along rather well' - then other nations will want to do so as well. The obvious question then arises: why does it exist in the first place? The EEC is something that almost everyone wants/wanted. The political union is something that very few actually want. ... "You mean like a QUEEN?" The UK is a Constitutional Monarchy, and 'The Queen' does not make laws. Sweden, Belgium, Norway, Spain, Denmark, Netherlands, Luxembourg (from whence Junker comes) - among others, all members of the EU (save Norway, though almost) are have Constitutional Monarchies ... which begs the question: 'What is your point?' The European Commission is the only executive layer of Government in the Western world that is not elected. It was designed on purpose this way, so that they would't have to deal with populist initiatives, or pay attention in any way to democratic movement. The current Commission President, Jean-Claude Junker, after the French populations rejection of the Treaty of Lisbon said: "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’" The totalitarian arrogance on full display; they're indicating that they will essentially move forward with their plan, irrespective of what people want. This is why they dropped the plan to have referendums in the remaining EU countries: because the Treaty of Lisbon would have never prevailed. All of this is fundamentally anti-democratic and is one of the root causes of tension within the EU. The EU will continue to wither in lock-block crises: UK relationship, Italy banks on the brink, Greece in 'broken mode', periphery in misery with massive unemployment, East Europe in 'authoritarian mode', everyone arguing about migration, France 'broken' and no longer a balancing partner to Germany, and Germany reaping the rewards of a currency which suits them and nobody else - all of these existential issues will continue in perpetuity until there is fundamental change, either through popular revolt, or a change in operating paradigms. The political landscape in Europe has fully turned upside down, with Eurosceptic and populist parties gaining everywhere, and instead of trying to tackle the problem and understand the situation, the response by the EU leadership has simply been 'more Europe, more governance, more Union'. It's a terrible situation - and things are only getting worse: France has just had it's most violent uprising in 40 years, Macron is the second President in a row to have approval ratings at the 20% mark, early in his term. I believe if the Executive were more responsive, they'd have made some reasonable progress on issues such as migration, maybe even the Euro, and there'd be much less calamity.

redial 8y ago
> A system wherein there is 'no way out' i.e. they will punish anyone who leave (i.e. Brexit). How can someone mention "BREXIT" and that "THERE IS NO WAY OUT" in the same sentence is beyond me. Brexit is specifically invoking the procedure of THE WAY OUT. > 'What is your point?' What is YOUR point? You were the one that brought up non-elected leaders and elitism. The arrogance in here is astounding. Whatever is happening or not happening, or however incorrect you caricature of Europe is, have nothing to do with the fact that you were wrong about your two main original points. Own it. There is a procedure for a peaceful exit from the EU and having non elected officials has nothing to do with anything, as you clearly accepted when you were only making my point stronger in your so-called rebuttal. The UK wants to leave, fine leave. But they should be grownups about it and learn to live with the consequences of their decisions. They should stop blaming the EU for a mess they started themselves and haven't been brave enough to go through with. "But they are so mean, they won't let us keep all the benefits we had when we were part of the EU??!!." Crybabies.
dang 8y ago
You've crossed into incivility and flamewar as well. Tedious, lengthy spats like this are definitely not interesting by the standards of this site, so please don't do this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  I was attacked as having an opinion one could only have if one has 'fallen for propaganda' and that the 'Brexit' is tantamount to the Southern Confederates fighting for slavery. Those are the indignities, they are not mine. Though I agree it's getting off the topic of Huawei I'm sorry for that.
  - redial 8y ago
    This is disgusting. What I said was about the separation of the union, which is exactly the same case as brexit. I never even mentioned slavery. YOU DID.

dang 8y ago

Using HN for political flamewar will get you banned here. Please review the site rules and post civilly and substantively or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html