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re: the satanic panic, the tunnels (under the school) reported by the children were verified years later. At the time, the inability to find the tunnels was key

re: the satanic panic, the tunnels (under the school) reported by the children were verified years later. At the time, the inability to find the tunnels was key in discrediting the childrens' testimony. re: Wenatchee WA. The justice system not providing enough proof for a guilty verdict does not mean the events did not happen. It only means there was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt according to the courts. However, it does seem like law enforcement did not act ethically & it's more likely they created false testimony from their witness badgering (of children) & dubious theories. In this case, members of law enforcement conspired to create a false case. Sometimes people act on incomplete information and are correct. When organizations act in secret, a rational person ought not to trust these organizations. In the realm of politics, where warfare is fought in many domains, it is beneficial to be critical of such organizations. Otherwise, instead of being a "conspiracy theorist", one becomes a "coincidence theorist", when creating models of how & why related events occur.

wl 8y ago
> re: the satanic panic, the tunnels (under the school) reported by the children were verified years later. Some true believer found an anomaly with ground penetrating radar and called it a tunnel. It's more likely a buried garbage pile. https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/77/96 https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/...
- briantakita 8y ago
  It's inconclusive at this point. If there were tunnels, they could have been filled in with "trash" by the time the ground penetrating radar reading was done. One possible avenue is to look up land permits & to create a case as to why the trash was filled in (if that's the case). However, this study is somebody's opinion of the readings, so it may not even be a trash pit. Further physical examination would probably be necessary to confirm one way or another, but at this point, it's a cold case. However, the childrens' testimonies of some sort of underground anomaly is a strange "coincidence". How would they know that there was something out of the ordinary underground, whether it's tunnels or buried trash? At this point, there are mysteries in this case & a number of possible truths. However, there are known cases of Satanism & ritual abuse. There's even more cases of testimony from different sources. I don't see this as a panic at all, but an acknowledgement of a possibility.
ikeboy 8y ago
And there were plenty of guilty verdicts. The comment you're replying to is misrepresenting the outcomes.
Nursie 8y ago
In the case of the satanic panic though, we can be pretty sure that not only was it bad faith policing, but also hysteria, because there have been other examples of baseless satanic ritual abuse hysteria. I believe we had one in the UK.
- briantakita 8y ago
  There's also been ritual abuse cases that have been proven. For example, Jimmy Savile. To write them all off as "baseless" is disingenuous. Note that the alleged purpose of ritual abuse is twofold. Trauma based mind control & blackmail to keep the practitioners in line. You can't deny it's effectiveness as a political strategy for criminal syndicates. For example, the "mafia" blackmailed politicians by recording them in compromising sexual encounters. If it's done using prostitutes, why not take it a step further & use children? Children are easier to control, are more "expendable" since they do not have full adult legal status, and the crime is far more heinous. It's been done before...
  - Nursie 8y ago
    Conflating group-hysterical episodes like those around "Satanic Ritual Abuse" with the long and disturbing career of a predator hiding in plain site is really rather disingenuous. They are very different phenomena. Further to that, the associated hysteria in the 1980s may well have obscured real issues and perpetrators, and helped the likes of Jimmy Savile continue to get away with his crimes. Crimes where there is no suggestion of ritual, or satanistic aspect, just a long career of awful abuse. I'm not sure what the rest of your conjecture is about at all.
    - briantakita 8y ago
      The thing is you are using a subjective pseudo-scientific conjecture ("group-hysterical episode") narrated to us by the media to describe the situation. I would not blame anybody for believing there was ritual abuse based on the testimony & the peculiarities of the case. I see the parents' reaction as being rational (not hysterical) given the information they were presented with. Even today, the case does not seem conclusive. Maybe what was labeled as "hysteria" was really awareness to this type of criminal. It was the discrediting, pathologization of potential victims, general lack of empathy by the media, & conspiracy by law enforcement which caused the likes of Jimmy Savile (who was in royal circles) to get away with his crimes for so long. Also child sex trafficking being a widespread phenomenon deeply embedded in influential circles (otherwise, how would it be so widespread & networked around the world). I agree in keeping the analysis open-ended by not committing to a particular narrative, however there's plenty of possibilities given the information that we know & what we don't know. Secret societies with influential members do not help the analysis since it's plausible that they would be involved with criminal activity & conspiracy. --- edit: I did more research & found then former FBI Agent Ted Gunderson's account (with photos) of the tunnels which lead to a ritual site. Also there were photos of satanic symbology found on plates & murals. Maybe I missed something in research or something else is amiss... https://youtu.be/8TsQxzOkgMY?t=1348 https://youtu.be/8TsQxzOkgMY?t=1348

wl 8y ago

> re: the satanic panic, the tunnels (under the school) reported by the children were verified years later. Some true believer found an anomaly with ground penetrating radar and called it a tunnel. It's more likely a buried garbage pile. https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/77/96 https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/...

briantakita 8y ago
It's inconclusive at this point. If there were tunnels, they could have been filled in with "trash" by the time the ground penetrating radar reading was done. One possible avenue is to look up land permits & to create a case as to why the trash was filled in (if that's the case). However, this study is somebody's opinion of the readings, so it may not even be a trash pit. Further physical examination would probably be necessary to confirm one way or another, but at this point, it's a cold case. However, the childrens' testimonies of some sort of underground anomaly is a strange "coincidence". How would they know that there was something out of the ordinary underground, whether it's tunnels or buried trash? At this point, there are mysteries in this case & a number of possible truths. However, there are known cases of Satanism & ritual abuse. There's even more cases of testimony from different sources. I don't see this as a panic at all, but an acknowledgement of a possibility.

ikeboy 8y ago

And there were plenty of guilty verdicts. The comment you're replying to is misrepresenting the outcomes.

Nursie 8y ago

In the case of the satanic panic though, we can be pretty sure that not only was it bad faith policing, but also hysteria, because there have been other examples of baseless satanic ritual abuse hysteria. I believe we had one in the UK.

briantakita 8y ago
There's also been ritual abuse cases that have been proven. For example, Jimmy Savile. To write them all off as "baseless" is disingenuous. Note that the alleged purpose of ritual abuse is twofold. Trauma based mind control & blackmail to keep the practitioners in line. You can't deny it's effectiveness as a political strategy for criminal syndicates. For example, the "mafia" blackmailed politicians by recording them in compromising sexual encounters. If it's done using prostitutes, why not take it a step further & use children? Children are easier to control, are more "expendable" since they do not have full adult legal status, and the crime is far more heinous. It's been done before...
- Nursie 8y ago
  Conflating group-hysterical episodes like those around "Satanic Ritual Abuse" with the long and disturbing career of a predator hiding in plain site is really rather disingenuous. They are very different phenomena. Further to that, the associated hysteria in the 1980s may well have obscured real issues and perpetrators, and helped the likes of Jimmy Savile continue to get away with his crimes. Crimes where there is no suggestion of ritual, or satanistic aspect, just a long career of awful abuse. I'm not sure what the rest of your conjecture is about at all.
  - briantakita 8y ago
    The thing is you are using a subjective pseudo-scientific conjecture ("group-hysterical episode") narrated to us by the media to describe the situation. I would not blame anybody for believing there was ritual abuse based on the testimony & the peculiarities of the case. I see the parents' reaction as being rational (not hysterical) given the information they were presented with. Even today, the case does not seem conclusive. Maybe what was labeled as "hysteria" was really awareness to this type of criminal. It was the discrediting, pathologization of potential victims, general lack of empathy by the media, & conspiracy by law enforcement which caused the likes of Jimmy Savile (who was in royal circles) to get away with his crimes for so long. Also child sex trafficking being a widespread phenomenon deeply embedded in influential circles (otherwise, how would it be so widespread & networked around the world). I agree in keeping the analysis open-ended by not committing to a particular narrative, however there's plenty of possibilities given the information that we know & what we don't know. Secret societies with influential members do not help the analysis since it's plausible that they would be involved with criminal activity & conspiracy. --- edit: I did more research & found then former FBI Agent Ted Gunderson's account (with photos) of the tunnels which lead to a ritual site. Also there were photos of satanic symbology found on plates & murals. Maybe I missed something in research or something else is amiss... https://youtu.be/8TsQxzOkgMY?t=1348 https://youtu.be/8TsQxzOkgMY?t=1348