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if you don't code, don't try to teach yourself and code for your startup. partner with someone who is great at it. programming is an art & science and takes y

by MJR 16y ago

if you don't code, don't try to teach yourself and code for your startup. partner with someone who is great at it. programming is an art & science and takes years to get good at. Completely agree. I dislike reading articles that insist if you have an idea you can just pick up programming, design or development and build it yourself. That may be true in the strict sense of having something simple to explain your idea, but it pales in comparison to the work that can be created by someone who has talent and years of experience. Also, its going to be throw away work. If your idea has is worthwhile and gains traction then you're going to need to have someone rebuild everything you've done anyway. Why waste that time? Partner with someone who can execute the product from day one.

europa 16y ago
I think it is worth coding the working mvp , even though you know that it is going to be re-done if you take off. This will help one to demonstrate his seriousness and something visual to show when he/she pitches to developer/co-founder instead of pitching a random idea.
- MJR 16y ago
  But clearly this isn't your forte, so why not find someone who can focus on that area. That leaves you to manage product development, vision and to test the work that's been done to create a product. I'm just not of the mindset that doing something twice is the right way to go. Especially when speed is a factor.
- candre717 16y ago
  Exactly. Developers have their pick of non-technical co-founders. It's a lot harder to approach someone with just "an idea." What are you offering in return? How do you contribute to a startup in those initial months? Sure, I've read plenty of posts on what non-technical co-founders can do in a startup - lots! But, it pales in comparison to the bread and butter of a startup: building a product. If you're looking to build the next Google or Wolfram Mathematica, find an expert or 2. The guys at SeatGeek built their initial product - a crude prototype but decent enough to promote at TechCrunch. Now, they're funded and growing. They were not programmers, but they needed something and they didn't have the resources to find someone to build it. Coding is a bottleneck for a lot of non-technical folks. Do what you got to do to get through it, scotch tape and all.
davidedicillo 16y ago
I agree and disagree. I'm not a developer, and I know that it's not worth for me at the time trying to become a good developers, that's why I try to hire great developers or partner with them. But at the same time, I wanted (and I did) learn the basics of PHP first and Ruby/RoR later, not because I plan to build things on my own, but because even if you just collaborate with developers (I'm a designer/front-end guy), it's really important to understand the technology and the logic behind it. Sure, to drive a car you don't need to know how the engine works, but if you do, you'll immediately know when something is wrong so that you can take it to shop to get it checked.
- MJR 16y ago
  I agree that it is important to be able to communicate effectively with anyone who has a technical background. Often that does mean having a basic knowledge of fundamentals of a language, etc. My point was really the mindset that you can just pickup a book and in 30 days be able to build your dream application and Viola! Not so much.
nkassis 16y ago
When I look back, I've been programming since I was 9, that's 15 years. That's very similar to most of the best hackers I know. Obviously you could cut down on that time when you start older due to maturity but not by much. Learning to program well takes a long time but the concept of 15 years experience in your 20s is foreign to most people.
- MortenK 16y ago
  Didling around with qBasic when your 9 doesn't exactly qualify as a year of experience in my book, any more than didling around with crayons at the age of 5 would qualify as a year of experience for a designer.
christonog 16y ago
The problem with this is what other value can you bring to a prototype stage project if you aren't doing do any of the coding? You do need some coding knowledge to make a/b testing optimization, SEO, or other marketing strategies of value.
- sachinag 16y ago
  This is false. VWO lets you do A/B testing without code. SEO is about making content and asking for links. Marketing online requires math, but certainly not any code.
  - christonog 16y ago
    Well, I'm mainly referring to the very early prototype stage, where you spend as little as you can. If you have some early funding (either self funding or family) then you can use VWO instead of a free A/B testing framework (A/Bingo for example). You still need to know how to manipulate some of the front end and back end code to show the user your A/B tests. On page SEO at least requires some knowledge of HTML. You're right about marketing such as adwords and LTV not requiring any code though.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
csallen 16y ago
It's simple to say, "Don't learn to code, just find someone else to do it," but in practice this is no easy task. In fact, it's one of the most common problems in startups today. At every event I go to, there's a deluge of MBAs with ideas looking for co-founders (as well as many promising startups that are aggressively hiring), but not enough skilled programmers to go around. Even if you do find a programmer willing to work with you, it will be difficult to determine if he's the right guy for the job unless you have some programming knowledge of your own. So once again, easier said than done. It's also worth noting that the most valuable employees at an early-stage company are generally jacks of all trades. You want people who can code, design products, write, talk to people, and strategize, and do all of it well. There are plenty of guys who possess the skills to get a respectable startup off the ground all by themselves (ex. Aaron Patzer working on Mint alone in his apartment for months). So at some point you have to ask yourself, "Yes learning to code is a big task and it will take years before I'm top-notch... but why not make that investment and start now?" People would be surprised how fast they can learn to make something useful, and how often first projects end up being significant.
gtdminh 16y ago
partially agree, i do believe to become a good programmer takes years but today tech help you to do programming more easily, like PHP and its frameworks. So it depends on how hard the problem you are solving is. Someone can pick up decent html/css lessons in shorter time and build a prototype, he then can hire other later when profit.

by MJR 16y ago

europa 16y ago

I think it is worth coding the working mvp , even though you know that it is going to be re-done if you take off. This will help one to demonstrate his seriousness and something visual to show when he/she pitches to developer/co-founder instead of pitching a random idea.

MJR 16y ago
But clearly this isn't your forte, so why not find someone who can focus on that area. That leaves you to manage product development, vision and to test the work that's been done to create a product. I'm just not of the mindset that doing something twice is the right way to go. Especially when speed is a factor.
candre717 16y ago
Exactly. Developers have their pick of non-technical co-founders. It's a lot harder to approach someone with just "an idea." What are you offering in return? How do you contribute to a startup in those initial months? Sure, I've read plenty of posts on what non-technical co-founders can do in a startup - lots! But, it pales in comparison to the bread and butter of a startup: building a product. If you're looking to build the next Google or Wolfram Mathematica, find an expert or 2. The guys at SeatGeek built their initial product - a crude prototype but decent enough to promote at TechCrunch. Now, they're funded and growing. They were not programmers, but they needed something and they didn't have the resources to find someone to build it. Coding is a bottleneck for a lot of non-technical folks. Do what you got to do to get through it, scotch tape and all.

davidedicillo 16y ago

I agree and disagree. I'm not a developer, and I know that it's not worth for me at the time trying to become a good developers, that's why I try to hire great developers or partner with them. But at the same time, I wanted (and I did) learn the basics of PHP first and Ruby/RoR later, not because I plan to build things on my own, but because even if you just collaborate with developers (I'm a designer/front-end guy), it's really important to understand the technology and the logic behind it. Sure, to drive a car you don't need to know how the engine works, but if you do, you'll immediately know when something is wrong so that you can take it to shop to get it checked.

MJR 16y ago
I agree that it is important to be able to communicate effectively with anyone who has a technical background. Often that does mean having a basic knowledge of fundamentals of a language, etc. My point was really the mindset that you can just pickup a book and in 30 days be able to build your dream application and Viola! Not so much.

nkassis 16y ago

When I look back, I've been programming since I was 9, that's 15 years. That's very similar to most of the best hackers I know. Obviously you could cut down on that time when you start older due to maturity but not by much. Learning to program well takes a long time but the concept of 15 years experience in your 20s is foreign to most people.

MortenK 16y ago
Didling around with qBasic when your 9 doesn't exactly qualify as a year of experience in my book, any more than didling around with crayons at the age of 5 would qualify as a year of experience for a designer.

christonog 16y ago

The problem with this is what other value can you bring to a prototype stage project if you aren't doing do any of the coding? You do need some coding knowledge to make a/b testing optimization, SEO, or other marketing strategies of value.

sachinag 16y ago
This is false. VWO lets you do A/B testing without code. SEO is about making content and asking for links. Marketing online requires math, but certainly not any code.
- christonog 16y ago
  Well, I'm mainly referring to the very early prototype stage, where you spend as little as you can. If you have some early funding (either self funding or family) then you can use VWO instead of a free A/B testing framework (A/Bingo for example). You still need to know how to manipulate some of the front end and back end code to show the user your A/B tests. On page SEO at least requires some knowledge of HTML. You're right about marketing such as adwords and LTV not requiring any code though.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

csallen 16y ago

It's simple to say, "Don't learn to code, just find someone else to do it," but in practice this is no easy task. In fact, it's one of the most common problems in startups today. At every event I go to, there's a deluge of MBAs with ideas looking for co-founders (as well as many promising startups that are aggressively hiring), but not enough skilled programmers to go around. Even if you do find a programmer willing to work with you, it will be difficult to determine if he's the right guy for the job unless you have some programming knowledge of your own. So once again, easier said than done. It's also worth noting that the most valuable employees at an early-stage company are generally jacks of all trades. You want people who can code, design products, write, talk to people, and strategize, and do all of it well. There are plenty of guys who possess the skills to get a respectable startup off the ground all by themselves (ex. Aaron Patzer working on Mint alone in his apartment for months). So at some point you have to ask yourself, "Yes learning to code is a big task and it will take years before I'm top-notch... but why not make that investment and start now?" People would be surprised how fast they can learn to make something useful, and how often first projects end up being significant.

gtdminh 16y ago

partially agree, i do believe to become a good programmer takes years but today tech help you to do programming more easily, like PHP and its frameworks. So it depends on how hard the problem you are solving is. Someone can pick up decent html/css lessons in shorter time and build a prototype, he then can hire other later when profit.