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Yale needs to take a clear stand against this "secret society" nonsense. It patently has no place at a global research university. To be sure, a significant amo

Yale needs to take a clear stand against this "secret society" nonsense. It patently has no place at a global research university. To be sure, a significant amount of all the talk about it is likely grossly exaggerated and unfounded. But the core fact of a respected institute of education having any relationship with organizations rooted in sociopolitical elitism (with an attendant history of discrimination) that serve no benefit to the institution or the public remains. In practice, the system may or may not be harmless. But to keep it alive serves zero useful purposes and degrades the reputation of the institution.

kornish 8y ago
> that serve no benefit to the institution What makes you think such an affiliation serves no benefit to the institution? Exclusivity can be enticing unto itself. People want to have a shot of being elite.
- alexnewman 8y ago
  The real question is what is Yale doing for the 322!
netcan 8y ago
I'm not trying to be dismissive and don't know much about these colleges but... Couldn't the description "organizations rooted in sociopolitical elitism (with an attendant history of discrimination)" be applied to elite universities or the "ivy league" generally? Exclusivity, a taste of the old upper class traditions, a bit of mystique..
bredren 8y ago
Aren’t they similar to dining clubs at Princeton?
coldtea 8y ago
>But the core fact of a respected institute of education having any relationship with organizations rooted in sociopolitical elitism (with an attendant history of discrimination) that serve no benefit to the institution or the public remains Isn't the very notion of an Ivy league university "rooted in sociopolitical elitism"? And doesn't it serve major "benefit to the institution"? That's its target group, and they want prospective students to know they can enter that elite themselves. And if there's a secret society you can aspire to get in of students and alumni promoting each other and handing out favors, even better. They should write it in their ads!
- barrow-rider 8y ago
  Fairly certain the notion of an Ivy League University has to do with college football; the elitism came more from being "college boys" at a time when most folks didn't go to university.
  - morpheuskafka 8y ago
    True, the Ivy League is an NCAA Division I FCS conference that dates back to 1954. Wikipedia has the first use of the phrase at 1933.
glbrew 8y ago
I don't think a homogeneous collection of "global research universities" is an ideal outcome and would even be ironic. Universities should reflect their independent and unique cultures and histories. Female universities (Wellesley), Black southern universities, "elite" universities (ivies), liberal arts universities, engineering universities, online universities... are all part of a patchwork of free and independent thought. All should be welcome.
rdiddly 8y ago
Are we judging every institution by its history now? The United States has a history of discrimination.
natechols 8y ago
Yale University isn't responsible for these societies and has no control over them. They occupy private property and by their very nature lack any formal institutional affiliation with the school. They're simply private clubs where current and former students can hang out and plot the next global financial collapse, have orgies, or whatever exactly it is they do. In any case, not Yale's problem - except an image problem, maybe. As an alumnus, I find the hand-wringing over these societies weird, because they're completely irrelevant to most students and have been for a long time. (No, I wasn't invited to join one. I don't even think I knew anybody in one of the name-brand societies, at least not well.) The fact that Bush and Kerry were both Bonesmen was amusing, but hardly surprising - the societies are exactly where you'd expect ambitious, privileged social climbers to end up by senior year. They're not even very secret, since the membership lists inevitably leaked. The only time the rest of campus noticed is when they walk past one of the "tombs" - windowless clubhouses - or when a really terrible movie about S&B ("The Skulls") came out while I was an undergrad. Are they creepy and elitist? Of course. Are they a sinister conspiracy? No more than Goldman Sachs or McKinsey.
- ken 8y ago
  I'm sure lots of people wish the authorities would disband Goldman, too, for similar reasons.
- starbeast 8y ago
  In the UK, we have had a government filled with people from the Bullingdon Club, an Oxford society that initiated members by having them burn money in front of the homeless. Homelessness has then rocketed under these people's reign, something they unfortunately cannot take seriously by the initiative act of their club. This society's association with government had the amusing high point where our sitting prime minister was accused of having oral sex with a cooked pig by another secret society member from within his own party. This stuff might not affect the colleges that much, the fallout happens later when these people go off and get jobs.

kornish 8y ago

> that serve no benefit to the institution What makes you think such an affiliation serves no benefit to the institution? Exclusivity can be enticing unto itself. People want to have a shot of being elite.

alexnewman 8y ago
The real question is what is Yale doing for the 322!

netcan 8y ago

I'm not trying to be dismissive and don't know much about these colleges but... Couldn't the description "organizations rooted in sociopolitical elitism (with an attendant history of discrimination)" be applied to elite universities or the "ivy league" generally? Exclusivity, a taste of the old upper class traditions, a bit of mystique..

bredren 8y ago

Aren’t they similar to dining clubs at Princeton?

coldtea 8y ago

>But the core fact of a respected institute of education having any relationship with organizations rooted in sociopolitical elitism (with an attendant history of discrimination) that serve no benefit to the institution or the public remains Isn't the very notion of an Ivy league university "rooted in sociopolitical elitism"? And doesn't it serve major "benefit to the institution"? That's its target group, and they want prospective students to know they can enter that elite themselves. And if there's a secret society you can aspire to get in of students and alumni promoting each other and handing out favors, even better. They should write it in their ads!

barrow-rider 8y ago
Fairly certain the notion of an Ivy League University has to do with college football; the elitism came more from being "college boys" at a time when most folks didn't go to university.
- morpheuskafka 8y ago
  True, the Ivy League is an NCAA Division I FCS conference that dates back to 1954. Wikipedia has the first use of the phrase at 1933.

glbrew 8y ago

I don't think a homogeneous collection of "global research universities" is an ideal outcome and would even be ironic. Universities should reflect their independent and unique cultures and histories. Female universities (Wellesley), Black southern universities, "elite" universities (ivies), liberal arts universities, engineering universities, online universities... are all part of a patchwork of free and independent thought. All should be welcome.

rdiddly 8y ago

Are we judging every institution by its history now? The United States has a history of discrimination.

natechols 8y ago

Yale University isn't responsible for these societies and has no control over them. They occupy private property and by their very nature lack any formal institutional affiliation with the school. They're simply private clubs where current and former students can hang out and plot the next global financial collapse, have orgies, or whatever exactly it is they do. In any case, not Yale's problem - except an image problem, maybe. As an alumnus, I find the hand-wringing over these societies weird, because they're completely irrelevant to most students and have been for a long time. (No, I wasn't invited to join one. I don't even think I knew anybody in one of the name-brand societies, at least not well.) The fact that Bush and Kerry were both Bonesmen was amusing, but hardly surprising - the societies are exactly where you'd expect ambitious, privileged social climbers to end up by senior year. They're not even very secret, since the membership lists inevitably leaked. The only time the rest of campus noticed is when they walk past one of the "tombs" - windowless clubhouses - or when a really terrible movie about S&B ("The Skulls") came out while I was an undergrad. Are they creepy and elitist? Of course. Are they a sinister conspiracy? No more than Goldman Sachs or McKinsey.

ken 8y ago
I'm sure lots of people wish the authorities would disband Goldman, too, for similar reasons.
starbeast 8y ago
In the UK, we have had a government filled with people from the Bullingdon Club, an Oxford society that initiated members by having them burn money in front of the homeless. Homelessness has then rocketed under these people's reign, something they unfortunately cannot take seriously by the initiative act of their club. This society's association with government had the amusing high point where our sitting prime minister was accused of having oral sex with a cooked pig by another secret society member from within his own party. This stuff might not affect the colleges that much, the fallout happens later when these people go off and get jobs.