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Newsflash: e2e encryption is used to send content that stands to gain most from using it.

by gmaster1440 8y ago

izzydata 8y ago
Careful there. You don't want to cause people to pull an Australia.
- muthdra 8y ago
  Australia has passed controversial laws designed to compel technology companies to grant police and security agencies access to encrypted messages. The government says the laws, a world first, are necessary to help combat terrorism and crime. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46463029 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46463029
  - tya99 8y ago
    Passing a law is easy, but putting it in practice is enough thing. We of course won't hear about that side of it because "secret". I have no doubts that the big companies which this seems mostly for will be doing everything to decentralize and remove themselves from the problem citing "systemic weakness" and then doing nothing for the government.
    - cyphar 8y ago
      > Passing a law is easy, but putting it in practice is enough thing. We of course won't hear about that side of it because "secret". ASIO has to provide statistics on how many notices they issued in their yearly reports. In addition, recipients of reports are allowed to provide statistics about his many reports they've received. See s317ZF. > I have no doubts that the big companies which this seems mostly for will be doing everything to decentralize and remove themselves from the problem citing "systemic weakness" and then doing nothing for the government. Except that Apple (and other such companies) have explicitly designed their e2e systems in a way that they could be backdoored (users don't need to sign new identities with a key, so Apple can add a new one -- which is how the device adding feature works). In addition, many such companies have the ability to provide a single backdoored binary to a single user. This, according to the legislation, would not be a systemic weakness. There is work you could do to make yourself resilient to company-wide sabotage but no company I'm aware of is doing it.
gmaster1440 8y ago
Ah yes, here come the obligatory downvotes, lol.
- dijit 8y ago
  Because it doesn't contribute to the discussion.
  - gmaster1440 8y ago
    Sure it does, maybe not as directly as people would like but I don't see how it warrants downvotes. If you feel it doesn't contribute, don't upvote it. I for one think there's some element of surprise that accompanies these articles that undermines the mechanisms of the technology being discussed and places blame on platforms that administer it.
  - bdamm 8y ago
    Personally I think it does. The OP is highlighting an assumption that it appears to be the duty of the carrier to track and block content ("WhatsApp has ... problem"). Except that is exactly what carriers should not be doing, and what encryption protects against. Using carriers to track and block content is the definition of totalitarianism. I think child pornography is a hideous blight but stamping it out by shifting responsibility to the carrier is not the way forward.
- ionised 8y ago
  A victim complex will get you even more downvotes.
exolymph 8y ago
As someone who strongly believes that people should have the ability to communicate truly privately, I upvoted you because you're correct and people need to be honest about it. The problem is that "content that stands to gain most from using [encryption]" also includes activists protesting authoritarian governments, or even government officials themselves who don't want to be spied on by their rivals, or victims of stalkers and domestic violence.
krylon 8y ago
With WhatsApp, end-to-end encryption is used by everybody, even though most people probably do not realize it. EDIT: Okay, that came out more snarky than I wanted it to. On the one hand, you are right, of course: Provide a secure, encrypted, easy-to-use means of communication, and people with something to hide will use it. If I wanted to download or spread child pornography, I would not do it via an unencrypted channel, either. On the other hand, your comment might be read by some to mean that you think encryption is the problem. And I think, by the time somebody posts a video of a child getting raped to a WhatsApp group, the problem has been around for while and is not going to magically disappear if WhatsApp were to remove end-to-end encryption from their service. And child pornography, understandably, provokes strong emotions, which is why politicians and law enforcement officials eager to push more surveillance or censorship like to use it as a reason to push their agenda.
- feanaro 8y ago
  In fact, I would say that everyone has something to hide and that is perfectly normal and acceptable.

Newsflash: e2e encryption is used to send content that stands to gain most from using it.

izzydata 8y ago

Careful there. You don't want to cause people to pull an Australia.

muthdra 8y ago
Australia has passed controversial laws designed to compel technology companies to grant police and security agencies access to encrypted messages. The government says the laws, a world first, are necessary to help combat terrorism and crime. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46463029 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46463029
- tya99 8y ago
  Passing a law is easy, but putting it in practice is enough thing. We of course won't hear about that side of it because "secret". I have no doubts that the big companies which this seems mostly for will be doing everything to decentralize and remove themselves from the problem citing "systemic weakness" and then doing nothing for the government.
  - cyphar 8y ago
    > Passing a law is easy, but putting it in practice is enough thing. We of course won't hear about that side of it because "secret". ASIO has to provide statistics on how many notices they issued in their yearly reports. In addition, recipients of reports are allowed to provide statistics about his many reports they've received. See s317ZF. > I have no doubts that the big companies which this seems mostly for will be doing everything to decentralize and remove themselves from the problem citing "systemic weakness" and then doing nothing for the government. Except that Apple (and other such companies) have explicitly designed their e2e systems in a way that they could be backdoored (users don't need to sign new identities with a key, so Apple can add a new one -- which is how the device adding feature works). In addition, many such companies have the ability to provide a single backdoored binary to a single user. This, according to the legislation, would not be a systemic weakness. There is work you could do to make yourself resilient to company-wide sabotage but no company I'm aware of is doing it.

gmaster1440 8y ago

Ah yes, here come the obligatory downvotes, lol.

dijit 8y ago
Because it doesn't contribute to the discussion.
- gmaster1440 8y ago
  Sure it does, maybe not as directly as people would like but I don't see how it warrants downvotes. If you feel it doesn't contribute, don't upvote it. I for one think there's some element of surprise that accompanies these articles that undermines the mechanisms of the technology being discussed and places blame on platforms that administer it.
- bdamm 8y ago
  Personally I think it does. The OP is highlighting an assumption that it appears to be the duty of the carrier to track and block content ("WhatsApp has ... problem"). Except that is exactly what carriers should not be doing, and what encryption protects against. Using carriers to track and block content is the definition of totalitarianism. I think child pornography is a hideous blight but stamping it out by shifting responsibility to the carrier is not the way forward.
ionised 8y ago
A victim complex will get you even more downvotes.

exolymph 8y ago

As someone who strongly believes that people should have the ability to communicate truly privately, I upvoted you because you're correct and people need to be honest about it. The problem is that "content that stands to gain most from using [encryption]" also includes activists protesting authoritarian governments, or even government officials themselves who don't want to be spied on by their rivals, or victims of stalkers and domestic violence.

krylon 8y ago

With WhatsApp, end-to-end encryption is used by everybody, even though most people probably do not realize it. EDIT: Okay, that came out more snarky than I wanted it to. On the one hand, you are right, of course: Provide a secure, encrypted, easy-to-use means of communication, and people with something to hide will use it. If I wanted to download or spread child pornography, I would not do it via an unencrypted channel, either. On the other hand, your comment might be read by some to mean that you think encryption is the problem. And I think, by the time somebody posts a video of a child getting raped to a WhatsApp group, the problem has been around for while and is not going to magically disappear if WhatsApp were to remove end-to-end encryption from their service. And child pornography, understandably, provokes strong emotions, which is why politicians and law enforcement officials eager to push more surveillance or censorship like to use it as a reason to push their agenda.

feanaro 8y ago
In fact, I would say that everyone has something to hide and that is perfectly normal and acceptable.