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I'm a long time debian user and supporter and this is ridiculous. They are going insane over weboob an acronym for "Web Outside Of Browsers"? If people don't li

I'm a long time debian user and supporter and this is ridiculous. They are going insane over weboob an acronym for "Web Outside Of Browsers"? If people don't like it, then tell them not to use it. And what's with the "our values" nonsense that so much of the tech leadership and business leadership have been using to justify censorship and their authoritarian behavior? If they are going to remove weboob, then they should also remove man/pages, mongodb, git, gimp, strip, tail, head, gnome, etc. You can view anything as being offensive if you choose to. So if debian somehow becomes a naughty word in our culture, will debian just shut down or change their name? Also, does debian's "values" apply only to english? What if the names is innocuous in english but highly offensive in other languages? Will they remove it from the package list or demand the name be changed? What is going on here? It's like someone released poison and the few people running things have turned into hypersensitive clowns.

Volundr 8y ago
It's a bit disingenuous to claim that weboobs is some kind of an accidental acronym. The logo combined with a brief glance at the page is plenty to make it clear it's very intentional. A quick look at http://weboob.org/applications/ http://weboob.org/applications/: handjoob wetboob boobsize Look, I enjoy a good dick and boob joke, but some people (people, not just women) get understandably uncomfortable with people start sniggering about body parts. Hence I don't do it in public. It's called basic manners. None of your other examples set out to be interpreted that way, and most of them are a hell of a stretch. Weboobs very clearly set out to make as many immature jokes as it could.
- belorn 8y ago
  If we need more explicit examples, what about the WTFPL? Should a license text exist on the system that has that word in it? There is also a license which use the word Bugger off (Etymology source this down to heretics who were thought to have come from Bulgaria), calls lawyers for jackals, and has the word twit in it which all sounds quite nasty for a single license.
  - Volundr 8y ago
    Is WTFPL in Debian? Given the unclear legal nature of that license I'd be surprised. Frankly, I'm fine either way. People seem to have assumed from my reply I'm strongly against this Weboob being in Debian. I'm not. I don't really care, but I recognize why an organization might want to distance itself from that kind of humor. I just really, really, hate bullshit arguments. And claiming that the "boob" association is accidental like the parent is 100% that.
    - belorn 8y ago
      Yes, there are a few packages but if you want specific here is a link: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libcaca0 https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libcaca0 A funny side note: Sam Hocevar, Debian's former project leader, wrote version 2 of WTFPL.. But you are right that it is not accidental association. I attribute the humor to be intentional and very similar to that of the WTFPL authors. Something that might be a accidental association is a pattern I noticed in the debian mailing list. For some peculiar reason, the vast majority of those in favor of removing the package are from the UK and US, while those against it are from east Europe and France. I guess diversity of culture is not high on the agenda of the diversity team.
- bigbugbag 8y ago
  You might want to learn about how the name weboob came to be: --- Day changed Sat Feb 13 2010 ... 13:02 > bon donc il nous faut un nouveau nom 13:02 > enfin, un nom 13:09 pankkake> grob 13:09 pankkake> Get Rid of Browsers 13:10 pankkake> bad (Browsers are Doomed) 13:11 > grob, ça me plait 13:12 pankkake> et en tout cas y a pas de paquet nommé « grob » sous gentoo 13:12 > idem debian 13:13 > ou woob (Web Out Of the Browser) 13:13 > (variante de ton wootb, en mieux) 13:14 > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woob 13:14 pingouine> [Link Info] title: Urban Dictionary: woob 13:14 pankkake> sauf que éliminer of et pas the, c’est pas logique 13:14 pankkake> bon on peut dire que « out of » c’est un vrai mot 13:14 > Web Out Of Browsers, ça se dit pas ? 13:14 pankkake> si 13:14 > bah voilà 13:15 > et woob ça te plait comme mot ? 13:15 pankkake> ouais, c’est rigolo 13:15 > ça va être dur par contre de grimper dans google 13:16 > bon moi woob ça me plait, on part là dessus ? 13:16 > à moins que tu aies d'autres suggestions 13:16 pankkake> non, j’en ai pas 13:17 > ça fait juste chier que le mot existe, en fait :) ... 17:25 > warning 17:26 > il y a déjà un projet nommé woob 17:26 > (plus ou moins) 17:26 > https://www.ohloh.net/p/wooboard 17:26 pingouine> [Link Info] title: wooB 17:27 > bon on va dire que c'est pas grav 17:27 > e 17:29 > hmm, ça peut être weboob (WEB Out Of Browsers) 17:29 > pankkake: t'en penses uqoi ? 17:31 > ook: pareil 17:31 > (même si tu t'en cognes) 17:39 pankkake> pas mal, y a boob dedans :) https://linuxfr.org/nodes/100988/comments/1514849 https://linuxfr.org/nodes/100988/comments/1514849
  - Volundr 8y ago
    Not sure the point you are trying to make here. If Google has translated it correctly, that last line: > pankkake> not bad, there is boob in :) So... yeah. Started with a boob joke that they double and tripled down on later. Got it.
- porpoisely 8y ago
  If you feel uncomfortable then that's your problem, not everyone else's. And as I said, you are free not to use it. Also, "immature jokes" has been the backbones of technology and the hacking community. It's called having a sense of humor. If people are so offended, then why not go create your own distribution with only "non-offensive" software instead of poisoning software that exists. That's what made tech and the open source and hacking community so wonderful. Not everyone has to be boring cookie cutter puritans. Rather than doing that, the puritans are trying to enforce their authoritarian vision on everything. Most of the debian and open source and tech community doesn't care about weboob or the hypersensitive agenda. Why should the community be affected by a tiny handful of puritans?
  - Volundr 8y ago
    > If you feel uncomfortable then that's your problem, not everyone else's. And as I said, you are free not to use it. That's a lazy argument, and you know it. "If your offended by me watching porn in my office, that's your problem not mine, feel free not to come in." Or just consider if that package was called the n-word. Would you be upset with Debian for not choosing to distribute that? > Also, "immature jokes" has been the backbones of technology and the hacking community. It's called having a sense of humor. Slavery was the backbone of the American cotton industry. We seem to be under the impression that was a bad thing. Look, we all know that a line exists. You can argue about where is should be, but trying to argue there isn't one is just lazy, and refusing the actually engage in thought. This boils down to one simple thing: Debian chose not to distribute some guys boob joke. Seriously, that's what your mad about? Flip it around, and show me someone coming into the project demanding the name be changed, and I'm on your side. But just because you told a fart joke doesn't mean I have to repeat it. >If people are so offended, then why not go create your own distribution with only "non-offensive" software instead of poisoning software that exists. Feel free to create your own distribution that does. We already have a distribution that cares about this kind of thing. It's called Debian. > Most of the debian and open source and tech community doesn't care about weboob or the hypersensitive agenda. Citation needed.
- teddyh 8y ago
  > some people (people, not just women) get understandably uncomfortable with people start sniggering about body parts. Hence I don't do it in public. It's called basic manners. All right. But is this an issue for an “Anti-Harassment Team”? I mean, there might be basic standard of decency which Debian should uphold, and this package might fail that standard and ought therefore be removed, but in that case, the Anti-Harassment Team should have nothing to do with this – this would be an issue for the whole of the Debian project to decide on what limits on basic decency to have. Or, the over-sexualization present in the package is actually harassing some specific group, in which case the AHT would be perfectly correct to take issue with the package. But the argument here is rarely made explicit.

Volundr 8y ago

It's a bit disingenuous to claim that weboobs is some kind of an accidental acronym. The logo combined with a brief glance at the page is plenty to make it clear it's very intentional. A quick look at http://weboob.org/applications/ http://weboob.org/applications/: handjoob wetboob boobsize Look, I enjoy a good dick and boob joke, but some people (people, not just women) get understandably uncomfortable with people start sniggering about body parts. Hence I don't do it in public. It's called basic manners. None of your other examples set out to be interpreted that way, and most of them are a hell of a stretch. Weboobs very clearly set out to make as many immature jokes as it could.

belorn 8y ago
If we need more explicit examples, what about the WTFPL? Should a license text exist on the system that has that word in it? There is also a license which use the word Bugger off (Etymology source this down to heretics who were thought to have come from Bulgaria), calls lawyers for jackals, and has the word twit in it which all sounds quite nasty for a single license.
- Volundr 8y ago
  Is WTFPL in Debian? Given the unclear legal nature of that license I'd be surprised. Frankly, I'm fine either way. People seem to have assumed from my reply I'm strongly against this Weboob being in Debian. I'm not. I don't really care, but I recognize why an organization might want to distance itself from that kind of humor. I just really, really, hate bullshit arguments. And claiming that the "boob" association is accidental like the parent is 100% that.
  - belorn 8y ago
    Yes, there are a few packages but if you want specific here is a link: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libcaca0 https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libcaca0 A funny side note: Sam Hocevar, Debian's former project leader, wrote version 2 of WTFPL.. But you are right that it is not accidental association. I attribute the humor to be intentional and very similar to that of the WTFPL authors. Something that might be a accidental association is a pattern I noticed in the debian mailing list. For some peculiar reason, the vast majority of those in favor of removing the package are from the UK and US, while those against it are from east Europe and France. I guess diversity of culture is not high on the agenda of the diversity team.
bigbugbag 8y ago
You might want to learn about how the name weboob came to be: --- Day changed Sat Feb 13 2010 ... 13:02 > bon donc il nous faut un nouveau nom 13:02 > enfin, un nom 13:09 pankkake> grob 13:09 pankkake> Get Rid of Browsers 13:10 pankkake> bad (Browsers are Doomed) 13:11 > grob, ça me plait 13:12 pankkake> et en tout cas y a pas de paquet nommé « grob » sous gentoo 13:12 > idem debian 13:13 > ou woob (Web Out Of the Browser) 13:13 > (variante de ton wootb, en mieux) 13:14 > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woob 13:14 pingouine> [Link Info] title: Urban Dictionary: woob 13:14 pankkake> sauf que éliminer of et pas the, c’est pas logique 13:14 pankkake> bon on peut dire que « out of » c’est un vrai mot 13:14 > Web Out Of Browsers, ça se dit pas ? 13:14 pankkake> si 13:14 > bah voilà 13:15 > et woob ça te plait comme mot ? 13:15 pankkake> ouais, c’est rigolo 13:15 > ça va être dur par contre de grimper dans google 13:16 > bon moi woob ça me plait, on part là dessus ? 13:16 > à moins que tu aies d'autres suggestions 13:16 pankkake> non, j’en ai pas 13:17 > ça fait juste chier que le mot existe, en fait :) ... 17:25 > warning 17:26 > il y a déjà un projet nommé woob 17:26 > (plus ou moins) 17:26 > https://www.ohloh.net/p/wooboard 17:26 pingouine> [Link Info] title: wooB 17:27 > bon on va dire que c'est pas grav 17:27 > e 17:29 > hmm, ça peut être weboob (WEB Out Of Browsers) 17:29 > pankkake: t'en penses uqoi ? 17:31 > ook: pareil 17:31 > (même si tu t'en cognes) 17:39 pankkake> pas mal, y a boob dedans :) https://linuxfr.org/nodes/100988/comments/1514849 https://linuxfr.org/nodes/100988/comments/1514849
- Volundr 8y ago
  Not sure the point you are trying to make here. If Google has translated it correctly, that last line: > pankkake> not bad, there is boob in :) So... yeah. Started with a boob joke that they double and tripled down on later. Got it.
porpoisely 8y ago
If you feel uncomfortable then that's your problem, not everyone else's. And as I said, you are free not to use it. Also, "immature jokes" has been the backbones of technology and the hacking community. It's called having a sense of humor. If people are so offended, then why not go create your own distribution with only "non-offensive" software instead of poisoning software that exists. That's what made tech and the open source and hacking community so wonderful. Not everyone has to be boring cookie cutter puritans. Rather than doing that, the puritans are trying to enforce their authoritarian vision on everything. Most of the debian and open source and tech community doesn't care about weboob or the hypersensitive agenda. Why should the community be affected by a tiny handful of puritans?
- Volundr 8y ago
  > If you feel uncomfortable then that's your problem, not everyone else's. And as I said, you are free not to use it. That's a lazy argument, and you know it. "If your offended by me watching porn in my office, that's your problem not mine, feel free not to come in." Or just consider if that package was called the n-word. Would you be upset with Debian for not choosing to distribute that? > Also, "immature jokes" has been the backbones of technology and the hacking community. It's called having a sense of humor. Slavery was the backbone of the American cotton industry. We seem to be under the impression that was a bad thing. Look, we all know that a line exists. You can argue about where is should be, but trying to argue there isn't one is just lazy, and refusing the actually engage in thought. This boils down to one simple thing: Debian chose not to distribute some guys boob joke. Seriously, that's what your mad about? Flip it around, and show me someone coming into the project demanding the name be changed, and I'm on your side. But just because you told a fart joke doesn't mean I have to repeat it. >If people are so offended, then why not go create your own distribution with only "non-offensive" software instead of poisoning software that exists. Feel free to create your own distribution that does. We already have a distribution that cares about this kind of thing. It's called Debian. > Most of the debian and open source and tech community doesn't care about weboob or the hypersensitive agenda. Citation needed.
teddyh 8y ago
> some people (people, not just women) get understandably uncomfortable with people start sniggering about body parts. Hence I don't do it in public. It's called basic manners. All right. But is this an issue for an “Anti-Harassment Team”? I mean, there might be basic standard of decency which Debian should uphold, and this package might fail that standard and ought therefore be removed, but in that case, the Anti-Harassment Team should have nothing to do with this – this would be an issue for the whole of the Debian project to decide on what limits on basic decency to have. Or, the over-sexualization present in the package is actually harassing some specific group, in which case the AHT would be perfectly correct to take issue with the package. But the argument here is rarely made explicit.