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Laws generally follow the calls for moral condemnation or the relaxation of those calls. And those calls are part of the debate on what should or shouldn't be l

Laws generally follow the calls for moral condemnation or the relaxation of those calls. And those calls are part of the debate on what should or shouldn't be law. Asking for moral judgment to be removed from discussions because those things are legal, is putting the cart before the horse.

smallgovt 8y ago
I see your point. I'm not calling for the removal of moral judgement from the conversation. I'm calling for the removal of moral condemnation. That is, we can have a discussion about what is right and wrong based on your value system, but condemning someone is a destructive act which is harmful and unnecessary.
- starbeast 8y ago
  There's a popular idea that it is bad to judge others. I disagree. I think we will judge others whether we like to admit it or not and also that many of the people I have met who claim not to judge anyone have also happened to have been some of the most hypocritical people I have ever met. I think the important thing is to judge yourself and your own judgements on other people, at least as harshly as you find yourself judging others. Put your own opinions of other people up to the coldest possible light. Judge more, not less.
  - smallgovt 8y ago
    I disagree with that popular notion also. We're entitled to our opinions and it's natural to judge others, but I think it crosses the line when that judgement turns into action, and that action is net harmful. In outrage scandals like this, we're so quick to condemn the actor and demand punishment. I think the more constructive action is to condemn the action (not the actor) and demand regulation (not punishment). Condemning the actor may quench our thirst for justice, but I think it's often net harmful. I get that calling for punishment is a good disincentive for future immoral, unregulated activity, but the punishment has to fit the bill. FB lost, what, $30B of value over this 'scandal'. Is that not a big enough fine?
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      FB lost, what, $30B of value over this 'scandal'. Is that not a big enough fine? Isn't that like when a rich/famous person evades punishment for a crime that the average person would get a long jail sentence for, because from loss of income etc they'd already got 'a big enough fine'? i.e. effectively only the non-rich are punished for crimes.
    - starbeast 8y ago
      Well, I think you have bias on this 'scandal', or should I say scandal. It is a scandal and also to claim loss of market value from the scandal is equivalent to some sort of fine or other legal punishment is beyond ridiculous (and kind of shows your hand a little).

smallgovt 8y ago

I see your point. I'm not calling for the removal of moral judgement from the conversation. I'm calling for the removal of moral condemnation. That is, we can have a discussion about what is right and wrong based on your value system, but condemning someone is a destructive act which is harmful and unnecessary.

starbeast 8y ago
There's a popular idea that it is bad to judge others. I disagree. I think we will judge others whether we like to admit it or not and also that many of the people I have met who claim not to judge anyone have also happened to have been some of the most hypocritical people I have ever met. I think the important thing is to judge yourself and your own judgements on other people, at least as harshly as you find yourself judging others. Put your own opinions of other people up to the coldest possible light. Judge more, not less.
- smallgovt 8y ago
  I disagree with that popular notion also. We're entitled to our opinions and it's natural to judge others, but I think it crosses the line when that judgement turns into action, and that action is net harmful. In outrage scandals like this, we're so quick to condemn the actor and demand punishment. I think the more constructive action is to condemn the action (not the actor) and demand regulation (not punishment). Condemning the actor may quench our thirst for justice, but I think it's often net harmful. I get that calling for punishment is a good disincentive for future immoral, unregulated activity, but the punishment has to fit the bill. FB lost, what, $30B of value over this 'scandal'. Is that not a big enough fine?
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    FB lost, what, $30B of value over this 'scandal'. Is that not a big enough fine? Isn't that like when a rich/famous person evades punishment for a crime that the average person would get a long jail sentence for, because from loss of income etc they'd already got 'a big enough fine'? i.e. effectively only the non-rich are punished for crimes.
  - starbeast 8y ago
    Well, I think you have bias on this 'scandal', or should I say scandal. It is a scandal and also to claim loss of market value from the scandal is equivalent to some sort of fine or other legal punishment is beyond ridiculous (and kind of shows your hand a little).