7 ms·

I can't understand why would citizens of a country not accept a national ID system like every other country, but they're fine with CCTV and this.

xeromal 8y ago
But the UK does have a national ID???
- pjc50 8y ago
  More stupidly, the UK has effectively hard national ID requirements (have to show ID and proof of residence/employment visa status in order to work, rent privately; ID checks on having a bank account and house purchases etc), but no national ID. Often utility bills get used instead. (I was actually part of the NO2ID campaign because we anticipated that it would be used for essentially discriminatory purposes like this, as well as the giant highly vulnerable database. It never occcured to us that they could impose ID requirements without issuing the cards!)
- avianlyric 8y ago
  No it doesn’t. Neither a driving licence or a passport are manidtory in the UK. Additionally a driving licence isn’t considered a form of national ID (despite many people treating it like one)
  - orf 8y ago
    It's not considered a national ID outside of the UK, but it's valid identification anywhere inside the UK.
- bogle 8y ago
  Nope. Can you explain your thinking, please?
bogle 8y ago
Who said we're fine with this? Mostly it's apathy and ignorance, partly it's that if you go up against the authorities you know your card is going to be marked.
- klyrs 8y ago
  Rioting in the streets is a classic method to demonstrate disapproval. Until y'all start that, we'll describe your complicity however we please.
  - Sharlin 8y ago
    B-but that's something the French do! So brutal and uncivilized.
  - bogle 8y ago
    Check the news. Plenty of rioting in the UK, although we prefer mass disobedience. If you work in the real world though, i.e. outside academia, prepare to be blacklisted.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  That's exactly what the father of my fiancee told me in Poland in 1986.
bambataa 8y ago
[sweeping generalisations alert] I think that a lot of British people have a set of beliefs about their country that are mostly inaccurate and increasingly divergent from reality. One is that other countries look up to Britain and are keen to trade on terms dictated by Britain. Brexit is exposing this delusion. A second is that Britain has a fearsome military that allows it to project its influence as a global power around the world. A third is that Britain is the birth place of civil rights, has always fought against totalitarianism and has a legal system that since Magna Carta has always protected the primacy of the individual against the state. It's much easier to ignore the increasing number of CCTV cameras when you can just tell yourself that Britain invented Magna Carta so how could Britain's civil liberties not be the envy of the world. With ID cards I think some of the opposition to them comes from the belief that they're the kind of thing a continental European country would do, as well as resentment against being obliged to carry something by the government. RIPA and CCTV aren't so much of a concern because they don't impose a physical obligation and so are only going to be bothersome to suspect people anyway. I sometimes think that if/when Britain becomes a dictatorship it'll be a brutally-enforced version of Middle England, with death sentences for people who don't put their bins out properly and so on.
- wgjordan 8y ago
  > RIPA and CCTV aren't so much of a concern because they don't impose a physical obligation and so are only going to be bothersome to suspect people anyway. This is generally known as the 'nothing to hide' argument [1], for what it's worth. [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/secrecy/you-may-have-nothing-hide-you-still-have-something-fear https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/secrecy/you-may-...
- starbeast 8y ago
  >I sometimes think that if/when Britain becomes a dictatorship it'll be a brutally-enforced version of Middle England, with death sentences for people who don't put their bins out properly and so on. You just reminded me of this old bit of news - - Half of councils use anti-terror laws to spy on 'bin crimes' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3333366/Half-of-councils-use-anti-terror-laws-to-spy-on-bin-crimes.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3333366/Half-of-coun...

xeromal 8y ago

But the UK does have a national ID???

pjc50 8y ago
More stupidly, the UK has effectively hard national ID requirements (have to show ID and proof of residence/employment visa status in order to work, rent privately; ID checks on having a bank account and house purchases etc), but no national ID. Often utility bills get used instead. (I was actually part of the NO2ID campaign because we anticipated that it would be used for essentially discriminatory purposes like this, as well as the giant highly vulnerable database. It never occcured to us that they could impose ID requirements without issuing the cards!)
avianlyric 8y ago
No it doesn’t. Neither a driving licence or a passport are manidtory in the UK. Additionally a driving licence isn’t considered a form of national ID (despite many people treating it like one)
- orf 8y ago
  It's not considered a national ID outside of the UK, but it's valid identification anywhere inside the UK.
bogle 8y ago
Nope. Can you explain your thinking, please?

bogle 8y ago

Who said we're fine with this? Mostly it's apathy and ignorance, partly it's that if you go up against the authorities you know your card is going to be marked.

klyrs 8y ago
Rioting in the streets is a classic method to demonstrate disapproval. Until y'all start that, we'll describe your complicity however we please.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  B-but that's something the French do! So brutal and uncivilized.
- bogle 8y ago
  Check the news. Plenty of rioting in the UK, although we prefer mass disobedience. If you work in the real world though, i.e. outside academia, prepare to be blacklisted.
jacquesm 8y ago
That's exactly what the father of my fiancee told me in Poland in 1986.

bambataa 8y ago

[sweeping generalisations alert] I think that a lot of British people have a set of beliefs about their country that are mostly inaccurate and increasingly divergent from reality. One is that other countries look up to Britain and are keen to trade on terms dictated by Britain. Brexit is exposing this delusion. A second is that Britain has a fearsome military that allows it to project its influence as a global power around the world. A third is that Britain is the birth place of civil rights, has always fought against totalitarianism and has a legal system that since Magna Carta has always protected the primacy of the individual against the state. It's much easier to ignore the increasing number of CCTV cameras when you can just tell yourself that Britain invented Magna Carta so how could Britain's civil liberties not be the envy of the world. With ID cards I think some of the opposition to them comes from the belief that they're the kind of thing a continental European country would do, as well as resentment against being obliged to carry something by the government. RIPA and CCTV aren't so much of a concern because they don't impose a physical obligation and so are only going to be bothersome to suspect people anyway. I sometimes think that if/when Britain becomes a dictatorship it'll be a brutally-enforced version of Middle England, with death sentences for people who don't put their bins out properly and so on.

wgjordan 8y ago
> RIPA and CCTV aren't so much of a concern because they don't impose a physical obligation and so are only going to be bothersome to suspect people anyway. This is generally known as the 'nothing to hide' argument [1], for what it's worth. [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/secrecy/you-may-have-nothing-hide-you-still-have-something-fear https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/secrecy/you-may-...
starbeast 8y ago
>I sometimes think that if/when Britain becomes a dictatorship it'll be a brutally-enforced version of Middle England, with death sentences for people who don't put their bins out properly and so on. You just reminded me of this old bit of news - - Half of councils use anti-terror laws to spy on 'bin crimes' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3333366/Half-of-councils-use-anti-terror-laws-to-spy-on-bin-crimes.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3333366/Half-of-coun...