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Can nerds as a group please drop the "I don't get the sportsball so it's clearly a waste of time" bit? Athletics promote physical fitness, working together as a

Can nerds as a group please drop the "I don't get the sportsball so it's clearly a waste of time" bit? Athletics promote physical fitness, working together as a team, and are at their roots generally enjoyable to those who choose to play them. You can argue about how it's expensive, but in my mind the price is well worth the investment if it gives kids a sense of camaraderie, keeps them out of trouble, and helps teach the value of teamwork. There are of course people who get way too invested in sports, but that is a totally different problem to be addressed, the sports themselves are generally fine.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Can nerds as a group please drop the "I don't get the sportsball so it's clearly a waste of time" bit? No. The same is true of almost any question that starts “Can nerds as a group...” It's not like there is a National Council of Nerds coordinating nerd doctrine. > Athletics promote physical fitness, Generally, that's fairly obvious. > working together as a team, Less true; team sports (like any team activity) does that, but athletics doesn't consist exclusively of team sports. > and are at their roots generally enjoyable to those who choose to play them. Most activities are enjoyable to those who choose to participate, because otherwise people wouldn't choose to participate.
adamnemecek 8y ago
Why is it attached to schools tho? Sports are a distraction. I spent only a year at a high school in the US but god I hated all the talk about sports.
- deadmetheny 8y ago
  >Why is it attached to schools tho? Because people have decided that the benefits of having sports programs are worth taxpayer support. This is largely opinion-based - if you feel they shouldn't be, bring it up at a school board meeting. Maybe people will agree with you. >Sports are a distraction. Sports are inherently no more of a distraction than chess club or coding for fun after school. >I spent only a year at a high school in the US but god I hated all the talk about sports. Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man. I played sports and enjoyed myself doing so, and gained some perspective and habits that I still value later in life. You are obviously welcome to hold your own opinions about sports, but you're going to have to do better than "I don't like sports" to convince people they are not worth the time or should not be funded by the school systems.
  - adamnemecek 8y ago
    > Because people have decided that the benefits of having sports programs are worth taxpayer support. Have they "decided" though? The reason for their existence is largely historic. I don't think people are really aware of the costs, both monetary and non-monetary. > This is largely opinion-based - if you feel they shouldn't be, bring it up at a school board meeting. Maybe people will agree with you. I've brought it up before. I was told that it's good because students can then get athletic scholarships. When I brought up that the sum of the scholarships received this was was very well below the budget of the athletic department, I didn't receive an answer. > Sports are inherently no more of a distraction than chess club or coding for fun after school. No, chess club has very little external costs. As the comment I was responding to said, one school cancelled later times (something everyone would benefit from) due to sports. Also, chess matches aren't a major "social event". > Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man. I played sports and enjoyed myself doing so, and gained some perspective and habits that I still value later in life. Which skills? Don't say "team work" or "diligence" or something. > You are obviously welcome to hold your own opinions about sports, but you're going to have to do better than "I don't like sports" to convince people they are not worth the time or should not be funded by the school systems. It's not about me disliking them, it's about me having it shoved down my throat and me, as a taxpayer, paying for it. By the way the sports culture was a major factor in the Columbine shooting https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/june99/columbine12.htm?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/june99/...
    - deadmetheny 8y ago
      >Have they "decided" though? The reason for their existence is largely historic. I don't think people are really aware of the costs, both monetary and non-monetary. [...] I've brought it up before. I was told that it's good because students can then get athletic scholarships. When I brought up that the sum of the scholarships received this was was very well below the budget of the athletic department, I didn't receive an answer. Again, if the status quo is not to your liking, attempt to change it. If you think people are unaware of the costs, educate them. Personally, I am aware of both and find them satisfactory. Perhaps those people did as well. > No, chess club has very little external costs. As the comment I was responding to said, one school cancelled later times (something everyone would benefit from) due to sports. Also, chess matches aren't a major "social event". Sure, but if all schools adopted later start times (as they should), it would no longer be a problem for sports to find scheduling. And my point is that kids are going to do something as an after-school activity, and that sports are perfectly fine as one of them. > Which skills? Don't say "team work" or "diligence" or something. Good workout routines and general ways of keeping physically fit. Tactical planning and how to effectively and efficiently fill roles. Teamwork, which I am saying anyway because that is absolutely a valuable takeaway from team sports, I'm not sure why you think that isn't good enough. Are these things exclusively learned from team sports? No, but nothing is really exclusively learned from anything else. >It's not about me disliking them, it's about me having it shoved down my throat and me, as a taxpayer, paying for it. I don't like everything my taxes are spent on either, but that's the price we pay for living in a civilized society sometimes. >By the way the sports culture was a major factor in the Columbine shooting This is in absolutely no way, shape, or form relevant to the discussion, and you should be ashamed for even considering to compare people who think sports have value in society to mass murderers in an otherwise civil discussion.
tracer4201 8y ago
I think you make some good points. Athletics at school are great for all the various reasons you mentioned. The problem, from my experience of going to school in Kansas and Oklahoma, is that you have all these small towns where academics take a back seat to sports. I lived in three different towns until graduating high school. All three towns cared more for football and basketball than any curriculum. I graduated in 2008. The textbook we used had no mention of Bill Clintons presidency and were from around 1991. We didn't have a rigorous math curriculum. I had Alegebra 1 and 2, Geometry, and Trig. There was no pre calculus or calculus. My first year in a CS degree program, I had never seen the symbol for a summation before. The district spent a fortune on raising funds or using tax payer money (both) on keeping the athletic facilities functioning. Yet we couldn't afford to have better classes or teach math at all. It wasn't even encouraged. Athletics at school are a good thing. Over index in one area is utter stupidity.
- deadmetheny 8y ago
  >Athletics at school are a good thing. Over index in one area is utter stupidity. I completely agree - there's a huge problem when athletics become the focus of a school district, and this should absolutely be addressed. I mostly just wanted to point out in my previous post that this isn't an unavoidable end point for athletics - I was fortunate in that I attended a high school that valued both academics and athletics, and feel both have enriched my life and the idea of dropping athletics for pure academics feels very short-sighted.
mikestew 8y ago
Can nerds as a group please drop the "I don't get the sportsball so it's clearly a waste of time" bit? Can jocks please drop the "nerds and their 'sportsball'" bit? That is not what parent said at all, but rather questioned why it's attached to schools. And it's a solid question given how many schools give priority to the football team over academics. There are plenty of extra-curricular soccer leagues out there, there's not reason it wouldn't work for football and basketball.
- deadmetheny 8y ago
  >Can jocks please drop the "nerds and their 'sportsball'" bit? That is not what parent said at all, but rather questioned why it's attached to schools. Oh please, defending sports on Hacker News hardly warrants calling someone a jock. And the parent said, and I quote, "high school sports are such a waste of everything" - that's absolutely showing a lack of understanding of why sports are a thing. There's nothing wrong with questioning why they're attached, and there absolutely is a problem with valuing athletics over academics in many school districts, but the parent's argument largely boils down to "I DON'T LIKE THING". That's not a convincing argument, and there's plenty of opportunity to balance academics and athletics without weighing too heavily on the scale with either one.
odessacubbage 8y ago
why are intermural athletics considered a superior way of encouraging those skills rather than funneling kids into community-based independent leagues? if anything i think the potential benefits of getting kids to practice teamwork & build friendships in a non age segregated environment would better reflect the realities of the workplace & society as a whole. we spend so many resources turning schools into their own enclosed ecosystems rather than using them as a means to encourage apprenticeship within the larger community where people are actually going to be utilized.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Can nerds as a group please drop the "I don't get the sportsball so it's clearly a waste of time" bit? No. The same is true of almost any question that starts “Can nerds as a group...” It's not like there is a National Council of Nerds coordinating nerd doctrine. > Athletics promote physical fitness, Generally, that's fairly obvious. > working together as a team, Less true; team sports (like any team activity) does that, but athletics doesn't consist exclusively of team sports. > and are at their roots generally enjoyable to those who choose to play them. Most activities are enjoyable to those who choose to participate, because otherwise people wouldn't choose to participate.

adamnemecek 8y ago

Why is it attached to schools tho? Sports are a distraction. I spent only a year at a high school in the US but god I hated all the talk about sports.

deadmetheny 8y ago
>Why is it attached to schools tho? Because people have decided that the benefits of having sports programs are worth taxpayer support. This is largely opinion-based - if you feel they shouldn't be, bring it up at a school board meeting. Maybe people will agree with you. >Sports are a distraction. Sports are inherently no more of a distraction than chess club or coding for fun after school. >I spent only a year at a high school in the US but god I hated all the talk about sports. Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man. I played sports and enjoyed myself doing so, and gained some perspective and habits that I still value later in life. You are obviously welcome to hold your own opinions about sports, but you're going to have to do better than "I don't like sports" to convince people they are not worth the time or should not be funded by the school systems.
- adamnemecek 8y ago
  > Because people have decided that the benefits of having sports programs are worth taxpayer support. Have they "decided" though? The reason for their existence is largely historic. I don't think people are really aware of the costs, both monetary and non-monetary. > This is largely opinion-based - if you feel they shouldn't be, bring it up at a school board meeting. Maybe people will agree with you. I've brought it up before. I was told that it's good because students can then get athletic scholarships. When I brought up that the sum of the scholarships received this was was very well below the budget of the athletic department, I didn't receive an answer. > Sports are inherently no more of a distraction than chess club or coding for fun after school. No, chess club has very little external costs. As the comment I was responding to said, one school cancelled later times (something everyone would benefit from) due to sports. Also, chess matches aren't a major "social event". > Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man. I played sports and enjoyed myself doing so, and gained some perspective and habits that I still value later in life. Which skills? Don't say "team work" or "diligence" or something. > You are obviously welcome to hold your own opinions about sports, but you're going to have to do better than "I don't like sports" to convince people they are not worth the time or should not be funded by the school systems. It's not about me disliking them, it's about me having it shoved down my throat and me, as a taxpayer, paying for it. By the way the sports culture was a major factor in the Columbine shooting https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/june99/columbine12.htm?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/june99/...
  - deadmetheny 8y ago
    >Have they "decided" though? The reason for their existence is largely historic. I don't think people are really aware of the costs, both monetary and non-monetary. [...] I've brought it up before. I was told that it's good because students can then get athletic scholarships. When I brought up that the sum of the scholarships received this was was very well below the budget of the athletic department, I didn't receive an answer. Again, if the status quo is not to your liking, attempt to change it. If you think people are unaware of the costs, educate them. Personally, I am aware of both and find them satisfactory. Perhaps those people did as well. > No, chess club has very little external costs. As the comment I was responding to said, one school cancelled later times (something everyone would benefit from) due to sports. Also, chess matches aren't a major "social event". Sure, but if all schools adopted later start times (as they should), it would no longer be a problem for sports to find scheduling. And my point is that kids are going to do something as an after-school activity, and that sports are perfectly fine as one of them. > Which skills? Don't say "team work" or "diligence" or something. Good workout routines and general ways of keeping physically fit. Tactical planning and how to effectively and efficiently fill roles. Teamwork, which I am saying anyway because that is absolutely a valuable takeaway from team sports, I'm not sure why you think that isn't good enough. Are these things exclusively learned from team sports? No, but nothing is really exclusively learned from anything else. >It's not about me disliking them, it's about me having it shoved down my throat and me, as a taxpayer, paying for it. I don't like everything my taxes are spent on either, but that's the price we pay for living in a civilized society sometimes. >By the way the sports culture was a major factor in the Columbine shooting This is in absolutely no way, shape, or form relevant to the discussion, and you should be ashamed for even considering to compare people who think sports have value in society to mass murderers in an otherwise civil discussion.

tracer4201 8y ago

I think you make some good points. Athletics at school are great for all the various reasons you mentioned. The problem, from my experience of going to school in Kansas and Oklahoma, is that you have all these small towns where academics take a back seat to sports. I lived in three different towns until graduating high school. All three towns cared more for football and basketball than any curriculum. I graduated in 2008. The textbook we used had no mention of Bill Clintons presidency and were from around 1991. We didn't have a rigorous math curriculum. I had Alegebra 1 and 2, Geometry, and Trig. There was no pre calculus or calculus. My first year in a CS degree program, I had never seen the symbol for a summation before. The district spent a fortune on raising funds or using tax payer money (both) on keeping the athletic facilities functioning. Yet we couldn't afford to have better classes or teach math at all. It wasn't even encouraged. Athletics at school are a good thing. Over index in one area is utter stupidity.

deadmetheny 8y ago
>Athletics at school are a good thing. Over index in one area is utter stupidity. I completely agree - there's a huge problem when athletics become the focus of a school district, and this should absolutely be addressed. I mostly just wanted to point out in my previous post that this isn't an unavoidable end point for athletics - I was fortunate in that I attended a high school that valued both academics and athletics, and feel both have enriched my life and the idea of dropping athletics for pure academics feels very short-sighted.

mikestew 8y ago

Can nerds as a group please drop the "I don't get the sportsball so it's clearly a waste of time" bit? Can jocks please drop the "nerds and their 'sportsball'" bit? That is not what parent said at all, but rather questioned why it's attached to schools. And it's a solid question given how many schools give priority to the football team over academics. There are plenty of extra-curricular soccer leagues out there, there's not reason it wouldn't work for football and basketball.

deadmetheny 8y ago
>Can jocks please drop the "nerds and their 'sportsball'" bit? That is not what parent said at all, but rather questioned why it's attached to schools. Oh please, defending sports on Hacker News hardly warrants calling someone a jock. And the parent said, and I quote, "high school sports are such a waste of everything" - that's absolutely showing a lack of understanding of why sports are a thing. There's nothing wrong with questioning why they're attached, and there absolutely is a problem with valuing athletics over academics in many school districts, but the parent's argument largely boils down to "I DON'T LIKE THING". That's not a convincing argument, and there's plenty of opportunity to balance academics and athletics without weighing too heavily on the scale with either one.

odessacubbage 8y ago

why are intermural athletics considered a superior way of encouraging those skills rather than funneling kids into community-based independent leagues? if anything i think the potential benefits of getting kids to practice teamwork & build friendships in a non age segregated environment would better reflect the realities of the workplace & society as a whole. we spend so many resources turning schools into their own enclosed ecosystems rather than using them as a means to encourage apprenticeship within the larger community where people are actually going to be utilized.