4 ms·

If you don’t mind sharing, why do you find the lack of growth in remote work concerning?

by ptd 8y ago

apercu 8y ago
Not OP but due to a lack of investment in public transportation in NA over the previous decades, many people spend a few hours a day commuting and in many cases this is done in private vehicles that pollute. For many in our profession there is no need to go to an office to work.
- ptd 8y ago
  Interesting, I haven't put much thought into the environmental impact of resistance to remote work. I would disagree with your second point however, I believe that you lose something when work is performed remote, regardless of your role. That benefit certainly isn't worth destroying the planet.
  - apercu 8y ago
    I (re)started my consultancy in part so I could work from home. My commute had gone from 2 hours a day to 3 hours a day with the rise of traffic in the Toronto area. I meet with clients a couple times a month and I am on the phone, slack or webex/ringcentral/google hangouts etc.. a few hours a week. I am _sooooo_ much more productive now (with fewer distractions) that I work on average 500 hours a year less than I used to. That doesn't even begin to factor in the quality of life issues. I now drive 8000km per year versus over 20,000km per year. Some jobs, some roles, yes, you need to physically go somewhere. For me, for what I do? There is no benefit.
    - ptd 8y ago
      First of all, congratulations! Always scary to (re)start over, and I'm glad it's worked out for you. I'm a big believer in serendipity. To use a machine learning example, your algorithm needs to have some temperature.[1] Sometimes you want to sacrifice your queen in order to checkmate your opponent in 5 moves. In this situation, that might mean sacrificing on productivity during a project in order to meet with the client more frequently in person, allowing you to develop a long lasting relationship. I'm sure that things come up in those physical meetings that don't come up during phone calls or Slack for a variety of reasons. In my opinion, if you met with clients a dozen times a month, instead of a couple, you would not be as productive, but you would drastically improve your relationship with the clients. Loyalty is a currency like any other, it can earned and spent. You can't quantify the value of a relationship the same way you can quantify productivity, but your improved empathy and sympathy to your clients problems will improve your performance. You might also find that your clients trust you more, and give you more freedom and time to find solutions to their problems. Finally, developing relations will pay off in your professional and personal life down the road, long after you have finished working on the current project. Of course, if you're optimizing for work-life balance, or spending less time on the road, then this can all be ignored. Take the necessary steps to achieve your desired lifestyle. If your goal is to promote growth, build infrastructure, and deliver value, I believe you lose something by going remote. Personally I think the best system is a combination of Monday and/or Friday remote, with the rest of the days in a physical location. This allows employees to enjoy parts of the remote lifestyle, while still keeping many of the benefits of meeting in person. 1) https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-temperature-parameter-in-deep-learning https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-temperature-parameter-in-d...
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  Only if you consider churning out code to be your work; I for one prefer to work in an office for a number of reasons. Not everyone's a robot that doesn't require social contact; not everyone has a good work-life balance allowing them to not have to be in the office to fulfill their needs. Plus, free lunch.
  - TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
    Not everyone gets free lunch
    - notyourloops 8y ago
      There is no free lunch.
TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
Not OC, but for me it's just a real wonder why it's not better embraced at this stage of the game. We have all the tools to accommodate collaboration within remote teams and in (most) places the broadband to handle it. Add to this the continued funneling of companies into these metro areas where COL is high (NYC, SF, Seattle) and thus people may find themselves being forced into higher commute times just to attain a better COL situation. I personally am commuting close to 2 hours each way, so 4 hours total, because the job market is much stronger in NYC then my immediate (30-45 minute) area. If a job is open around here the salaries are almost 30-40% lower than NYC despite our COL still being high.
- ptd 8y ago
  We have tools to accommodate collaboration but I believe something gets lost when you remove those water cooler conversations and physical interaction. In regards to your commute, wouldn't a 40% lower salary be worth 4 extra hours everyday? I guess it depends on the math but unless you're being compensated for the commute(in which case it's just work on the train/metro) that seems like an incredible sacrifice for a bigger paycheck. At what point is your time worth it?
  - gedy 8y ago
    > those water cooler conversations You mean managers and owners getting to oversee "their people".
    - ptd 8y ago
      That's definitely a part of it. Much easier to hold people accountable when you physically interact with them. If your manager or owner is abusing this, then I imagine working for them remote would involve a webcam and a key logger. Good managers usually find ways to motivate their workers, but it is definitely harder when you never get to physically interact.
  - TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
    I think "water cooler" talk is over stated because many companies will have different channels to discuss these kinds of things. You no doubt loose the face to face human interaction, but there are other ways to account for this. Getting out and socializing with people via hobbies can help greatly here. As for the commute, I've worked out a flexible work schedule that lets me be home a few days but as I stated I'm in a higher COL state (NJ). So a 30-40% reduction in pay ends up being a fairly big change in QOL. I've learned to make use of the time on the train by engaging in things I enjoy (video games, podcasts) which may be harder at home. Moving closer also doesn't help because A. it gets even more expensive B. QOL drops due to higher density areas which makes it harder to ride bikes, garden, etc. We've accepted the choice we make to be where we are because of what we get from our life outside of work, but it doesn't mean I can't hope for better remote possibilities.
moduspol 8y ago
Not OP, but I'd like the world to be moving toward a paradigm where physical location is not a significant factor in career / pay / advancement. It makes things more "meritocratic," and it puts pressure on some of these big tech hubs to keep their costs of living competitive. But I don't want to see it if the market doesn't justify it. I think today there is something beneficial to having people working together in an office, but I'd prefer to be proven wrong by some new remote-work management style (or something). And software development is one of the more ideal use cases for remote work, so if it's not expanding for us, it's less likely to expand in other industries.

If you don’t mind sharing, why do you find the lack of growth in remote work concerning?

by ptd 8y ago

If you don’t mind sharing, why do you find the lack of growth in remote work concerning?

Not OP but due to a lack of investment in public transportation in NA over the previous decades, many people spend a few hours a day commuting and in many cases this is done in private vehicles that pollute. For many in our profession there is no need to go to an office to work.

ptd 8y ago
Interesting, I haven't put much thought into the environmental impact of resistance to remote work. I would disagree with your second point however, I believe that you lose something when work is performed remote, regardless of your role. That benefit certainly isn't worth destroying the planet.
- apercu 8y ago
  I (re)started my consultancy in part so I could work from home. My commute had gone from 2 hours a day to 3 hours a day with the rise of traffic in the Toronto area. I meet with clients a couple times a month and I am on the phone, slack or webex/ringcentral/google hangouts etc.. a few hours a week. I am _sooooo_ much more productive now (with fewer distractions) that I work on average 500 hours a year less than I used to. That doesn't even begin to factor in the quality of life issues. I now drive 8000km per year versus over 20,000km per year. Some jobs, some roles, yes, you need to physically go somewhere. For me, for what I do? There is no benefit.
  - ptd 8y ago
    First of all, congratulations! Always scary to (re)start over, and I'm glad it's worked out for you. I'm a big believer in serendipity. To use a machine learning example, your algorithm needs to have some temperature.[1] Sometimes you want to sacrifice your queen in order to checkmate your opponent in 5 moves. In this situation, that might mean sacrificing on productivity during a project in order to meet with the client more frequently in person, allowing you to develop a long lasting relationship. I'm sure that things come up in those physical meetings that don't come up during phone calls or Slack for a variety of reasons. In my opinion, if you met with clients a dozen times a month, instead of a couple, you would not be as productive, but you would drastically improve your relationship with the clients. Loyalty is a currency like any other, it can earned and spent. You can't quantify the value of a relationship the same way you can quantify productivity, but your improved empathy and sympathy to your clients problems will improve your performance. You might also find that your clients trust you more, and give you more freedom and time to find solutions to their problems. Finally, developing relations will pay off in your professional and personal life down the road, long after you have finished working on the current project. Of course, if you're optimizing for work-life balance, or spending less time on the road, then this can all be ignored. Take the necessary steps to achieve your desired lifestyle. If your goal is to promote growth, build infrastructure, and deliver value, I believe you lose something by going remote. Personally I think the best system is a combination of Monday and/or Friday remote, with the rest of the days in a physical location. This allows employees to enjoy parts of the remote lifestyle, while still keeping many of the benefits of meeting in person. 1) https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-temperature-parameter-in-deep-learning https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-temperature-parameter-in-d...
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
Only if you consider churning out code to be your work; I for one prefer to work in an office for a number of reasons. Not everyone's a robot that doesn't require social contact; not everyone has a good work-life balance allowing them to not have to be in the office to fulfill their needs. Plus, free lunch.
- TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
  Not everyone gets free lunch
  - notyourloops 8y ago
    There is no free lunch.

TarpitCarnivore 8y ago

Not OC, but for me it's just a real wonder why it's not better embraced at this stage of the game. We have all the tools to accommodate collaboration within remote teams and in (most) places the broadband to handle it. Add to this the continued funneling of companies into these metro areas where COL is high (NYC, SF, Seattle) and thus people may find themselves being forced into higher commute times just to attain a better COL situation. I personally am commuting close to 2 hours each way, so 4 hours total, because the job market is much stronger in NYC then my immediate (30-45 minute) area. If a job is open around here the salaries are almost 30-40% lower than NYC despite our COL still being high.

ptd 8y ago
We have tools to accommodate collaboration but I believe something gets lost when you remove those water cooler conversations and physical interaction. In regards to your commute, wouldn't a 40% lower salary be worth 4 extra hours everyday? I guess it depends on the math but unless you're being compensated for the commute(in which case it's just work on the train/metro) that seems like an incredible sacrifice for a bigger paycheck. At what point is your time worth it?
- gedy 8y ago
  > those water cooler conversations You mean managers and owners getting to oversee "their people".
  - ptd 8y ago
    That's definitely a part of it. Much easier to hold people accountable when you physically interact with them. If your manager or owner is abusing this, then I imagine working for them remote would involve a webcam and a key logger. Good managers usually find ways to motivate their workers, but it is definitely harder when you never get to physically interact.
- TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
  I think "water cooler" talk is over stated because many companies will have different channels to discuss these kinds of things. You no doubt loose the face to face human interaction, but there are other ways to account for this. Getting out and socializing with people via hobbies can help greatly here. As for the commute, I've worked out a flexible work schedule that lets me be home a few days but as I stated I'm in a higher COL state (NJ). So a 30-40% reduction in pay ends up being a fairly big change in QOL. I've learned to make use of the time on the train by engaging in things I enjoy (video games, podcasts) which may be harder at home. Moving closer also doesn't help because A. it gets even more expensive B. QOL drops due to higher density areas which makes it harder to ride bikes, garden, etc. We've accepted the choice we make to be where we are because of what we get from our life outside of work, but it doesn't mean I can't hope for better remote possibilities.

moduspol 8y ago

Not OP, but I'd like the world to be moving toward a paradigm where physical location is not a significant factor in career / pay / advancement. It makes things more "meritocratic," and it puts pressure on some of these big tech hubs to keep their costs of living competitive. But I don't want to see it if the market doesn't justify it. I think today there is something beneficial to having people working together in an office, but I'd prefer to be proven wrong by some new remote-work management style (or something). And software development is one of the more ideal use cases for remote work, so if it's not expanding for us, it's less likely to expand in other industries.