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I think the real issue here is not the kids doing the hacking but the parents who know what they’re doing and let them continue - even help them bank their earn

I think the real issue here is not the kids doing the hacking but the parents who know what they’re doing and let them continue - even help them bank their earning in some instances. That makes the parents just as responsible in my opinion. We’ve all taken stupid risks as kids. I’d done my fair share of hacking too when I was younger. But I tread a very fine line because I knew my parents would have gone mental if I was caught. Just as I would if I found out my kids were doing something reckless and illegal. So to endorse such behaviour in their own children really doesn’t cast them in a good light. Sorry if this sounds high and mighty. I know comments about parenting often can sound “holier than thou”, but the parents in that article have crossed the line by in my personal opinion.

sebcat 8y ago
> I knew my parents would have gone mental if I was caught You hooked it up to the phone, didn't you? You screw up again and you won't get into college!
- efdee 8y ago
  Dade! Turn the shower off!
SonicSoul 8y ago
Good points but it seems hacking is slightly different these days with high profile hackers (i.e. jailbreak dude) being invited on tv shows and getting lucrative work. There is still a fine line between criminal behavior and just pushing the boundaries, and whole companies are build on boundary pushing. So the question is probably as relatable to morality of your kids actions as much as legality. Just thinking outloud here that the whole meaning / stigma of hackers seems to trend towards positive / resume building these days.
- JeremyBanks 8y ago
  The parents don’t need to be technical geniuses to distinguish between hacking your own devices and mass theft.
kjullien 8y ago
I don't agree that much with what you are saying, mainly from personal experience. 1. Even if parents find out they probably have no idea what it means (legally or literally) 2. You can open a bank account really easily online for free. (You can find photoshop ID templates for every possible country, maybe they check them more nowadays but some years ago you didn't even need to change any of the hashed numbers and it would be accepted by most services, even PayPal) 3. I did get caught at one point by my parents, they proceeded to take away every bit of technology they could find, so I ended up doing more shady stuff (on a lended machine at mcdonalds) to make enough to buy a new computer and keep on with life as usual. Had to re-buy a new computer every year or so when they found out. My perspective on the thing is that most parents won't even fathom the idea of what hacking is, so finding out their kid is a "hacker" won't change a thing in their day. And if it does a "hacker" will always find a way to keep on going anyway, trying to not get caught along the way, it's the job spec. Now what I can agree on is that if the kid tells their parents they're getting money illegally and asking their parents to hold it in their bank account, and the parents agree, then that's just plain stupidity, and a lot of that goes on in the world, parent or not parent...
- yawz 8y ago
  May I ask, as a parent, what would have been the sensible approach to what you were doing from the point of view of your parents?
  - kjullien 8y ago
    I don't think I am able to answer this. If you took a bank robber instead of hacker you could ask the same question and if anybody had an answer to this I don't think there would be bank robbers in the world. edit: This actually feels like more of a personal philosophy type of thing. Say maybe I consider "borrowing" money from a big corp. that screws over the average working person at every chance it gets a good thing. They probably don't. You surely have your own opinion. Hope you see what I mean. edit2: actually now that I think about it, if you (as a parent) have prior knowledge of the field then you surely could spend quality family time orienting the kid in the right direction, while still keeping him happy doing the stuff he wants to do, namely "hacking". This way if he ever ventures too close to the thin line of legality you can be there to have a say in it and make him realize there is suc a thing. (Because to be honest at that time, I did have the notion that what I was doing was illegal, but no idea of what how consequences would affect me, I was a kid. It's the same as kids and the concept of death. Only now do I actually REALIZE that most of the stuff I did could have landed me years of prison time, even if you told me at the time I would not have cared, because being a kid and thinking you are hot shit all the time makes you try crazy stuff just to see how far you can take it)
w8rbt 8y ago
Some of the parents are probably under the impression that the activity is legitimate/legal. Kids can make a lot of money in technology (apps, games, mods, etc.). Parents may not be able to easily tell the difference. They just think they have a wonder kid and are proud.
- laumars 8y ago
  The article suggested the parents were aware that their kids activities were illegal. Which was why I took objection.
jmull 8y ago
I don't know if this line from the article is what you're thinking about: > He said he knew what he was doing was illegal, but his parents were aware of his activities and had not stopped him. But the chances that those parents actually have a clear idea of what is going on are pretty damn slim.
borkt 8y ago
While I agree with your sentiment I wouldn't describe this as hacking, it is much closer to stealing someones car key and then the car (though the value is way off). This does not require any technical knowledge whatsoever apart from using ctrl-F on a password database.
- laumars 8y ago
  I'd still describe it as hacking. Even seasoned pen testers have a suite of automated tools. The distinction you're making is pretty arbitrary as it's based on elitist ideologies; however I do agree with you that those teenagers are essentially just "script kiddies". I have say I think it's a pretty distracting argument to make because regardless of whether they understand the tools on a technical level, they understand what they are doing (hijacking peoples accounts and selling them on) and are aware that it is illegal. Surely that's the important takeaway here?

sebcat 8y ago

> I knew my parents would have gone mental if I was caught You hooked it up to the phone, didn't you? You screw up again and you won't get into college!

efdee 8y ago
Dade! Turn the shower off!

SonicSoul 8y ago

Good points but it seems hacking is slightly different these days with high profile hackers (i.e. jailbreak dude) being invited on tv shows and getting lucrative work. There is still a fine line between criminal behavior and just pushing the boundaries, and whole companies are build on boundary pushing. So the question is probably as relatable to morality of your kids actions as much as legality. Just thinking outloud here that the whole meaning / stigma of hackers seems to trend towards positive / resume building these days.

JeremyBanks 8y ago
The parents don’t need to be technical geniuses to distinguish between hacking your own devices and mass theft.

kjullien 8y ago

I don't agree that much with what you are saying, mainly from personal experience. 1. Even if parents find out they probably have no idea what it means (legally or literally) 2. You can open a bank account really easily online for free. (You can find photoshop ID templates for every possible country, maybe they check them more nowadays but some years ago you didn't even need to change any of the hashed numbers and it would be accepted by most services, even PayPal) 3. I did get caught at one point by my parents, they proceeded to take away every bit of technology they could find, so I ended up doing more shady stuff (on a lended machine at mcdonalds) to make enough to buy a new computer and keep on with life as usual. Had to re-buy a new computer every year or so when they found out. My perspective on the thing is that most parents won't even fathom the idea of what hacking is, so finding out their kid is a "hacker" won't change a thing in their day. And if it does a "hacker" will always find a way to keep on going anyway, trying to not get caught along the way, it's the job spec. Now what I can agree on is that if the kid tells their parents they're getting money illegally and asking their parents to hold it in their bank account, and the parents agree, then that's just plain stupidity, and a lot of that goes on in the world, parent or not parent...

yawz 8y ago
May I ask, as a parent, what would have been the sensible approach to what you were doing from the point of view of your parents?
- kjullien 8y ago
  I don't think I am able to answer this. If you took a bank robber instead of hacker you could ask the same question and if anybody had an answer to this I don't think there would be bank robbers in the world. edit: This actually feels like more of a personal philosophy type of thing. Say maybe I consider "borrowing" money from a big corp. that screws over the average working person at every chance it gets a good thing. They probably don't. You surely have your own opinion. Hope you see what I mean. edit2: actually now that I think about it, if you (as a parent) have prior knowledge of the field then you surely could spend quality family time orienting the kid in the right direction, while still keeping him happy doing the stuff he wants to do, namely "hacking". This way if he ever ventures too close to the thin line of legality you can be there to have a say in it and make him realize there is suc a thing. (Because to be honest at that time, I did have the notion that what I was doing was illegal, but no idea of what how consequences would affect me, I was a kid. It's the same as kids and the concept of death. Only now do I actually REALIZE that most of the stuff I did could have landed me years of prison time, even if you told me at the time I would not have cared, because being a kid and thinking you are hot shit all the time makes you try crazy stuff just to see how far you can take it)

w8rbt 8y ago

Some of the parents are probably under the impression that the activity is legitimate/legal. Kids can make a lot of money in technology (apps, games, mods, etc.). Parents may not be able to easily tell the difference. They just think they have a wonder kid and are proud.

laumars 8y ago
The article suggested the parents were aware that their kids activities were illegal. Which was why I took objection.

jmull 8y ago

I don't know if this line from the article is what you're thinking about: > He said he knew what he was doing was illegal, but his parents were aware of his activities and had not stopped him. But the chances that those parents actually have a clear idea of what is going on are pretty damn slim.

borkt 8y ago

While I agree with your sentiment I wouldn't describe this as hacking, it is much closer to stealing someones car key and then the car (though the value is way off). This does not require any technical knowledge whatsoever apart from using ctrl-F on a password database.

laumars 8y ago
I'd still describe it as hacking. Even seasoned pen testers have a suite of automated tools. The distinction you're making is pretty arbitrary as it's based on elitist ideologies; however I do agree with you that those teenagers are essentially just "script kiddies". I have say I think it's a pretty distracting argument to make because regardless of whether they understand the tools on a technical level, they understand what they are doing (hijacking peoples accounts and selling them on) and are aware that it is illegal. Surely that's the important takeaway here?