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I vaguely recall that this was discussed here on HN a while ago and somebody who had actually tried to buy the necessary license reported that Oracle would not

by krylon 8y ago

I vaguely recall that this was discussed here on HN a while ago and somebody who had actually tried to buy the necessary license reported that Oracle would not sell them the license; IIRC, the sales person told them to "just use it, we don't care", or something along those lines. Which is very problematic, of course, without something in writing, and given Oracle's reputation.

giancarlostoro 8y ago
That's awkward as hell. It's sad that their offering is the only decent one out there (for my needs and with that UX) that's at least got open source options. I hope VirtualPC from Microsoft becomes cross-platform and open sourced, or at least some sort of new VM software from Microsoft, since they seem to be doing a better job at offering up MIT licensed projects lately.
- dhimes 8y ago
  I wouldn't even mind shelling out $50 for a license if I needed one, but they won't let me. It takes $5000, because they require a purchase of 100 or more at a time. It feels like they don't want to spend time on small stuff, and really don't care.
  - ikeboy 8y ago
    Can also buy a socket license for 1k, or buy from resellers with lower MOQ: e.g. https://m.cdw.com/product/oracle-vm-virtualbox-enterprise-license/2652849 https://m.cdw.com/product/oracle-vm-virtualbox-enterprise-li...
- user5994461 8y ago
  VMWare does the same thing. No idea why you'd think Oracle is the only competitor.
  - bradstewart 8y ago
    Indeed. I find VMWare Workstation to be a significantly better product as well. I hate using VirtualBox.
amyjess 8y ago
If you live in a one-party state, secretly record them and then if Oracle threatens to sue, show them the recording and remind them of promissory estoppel. (IANAL!)
- krylon 8y ago
  In Germany, it is illegal to record phone conversations without the consents of the other party. Also, I don't think Oracle is going to sue over something like this. They really seem not to care. But they could change their mind tomorrow.
  - amyjess 8y ago
    > In Germany, it is illegal to record phone conversations without the consents of the other party. Hence, "If you live in a one-party state." > Also, I don't think Oracle is going to sue over something like this. Check the other comments in the thread. People are reporting that Oracle is taking IP addresses of people who access the extensions site and if the IP address belongs to a company, they contact the company and threaten to sue.
    - krylon 8y ago
      > Hence, "If you live in a one-party state." I am sorry. In Germany, there is no such thing as a "one-party state". :-| > People are reporting that Oracle is taking IP addresses of people who access the extensions site and if the IP address belongs to a company, they contact the company and threaten to sue. Thank you for pointing this out. I stand corrected.
- torstenvl 8y ago
  Not really promissory estoppel, which can enforce a promise if you detrimentally relied on it. It's not really to your detriment to use the product for free, so it's not a perfect fit (unless maybe your company hired someone to administer the VMs, specifically based on his VirtualBox experience?). Some other possibilities would be the parol evidence rule (verbal exchanges between the contracting parties and their effect on contract interpretation) and possibly laches (no equitable remedy for folks who know about an infringement on their rights and do nothing about it... but money damages isn't an equity claim). (IAAL but I don't practice in this area, so same grain of salt applies)
JshWright 8y ago
This was my experience 6-7 years ago (shortly after the Sun/Oracle acquisition). Couldn't get a straight answer from anyone about how to license it (despite wanting to roll out many thousands of seats using it in a commercial product).

by krylon 8y ago

giancarlostoro 8y ago

That's awkward as hell. It's sad that their offering is the only decent one out there (for my needs and with that UX) that's at least got open source options. I hope VirtualPC from Microsoft becomes cross-platform and open sourced, or at least some sort of new VM software from Microsoft, since they seem to be doing a better job at offering up MIT licensed projects lately.

dhimes 8y ago
I wouldn't even mind shelling out $50 for a license if I needed one, but they won't let me. It takes $5000, because they require a purchase of 100 or more at a time. It feels like they don't want to spend time on small stuff, and really don't care.
- ikeboy 8y ago
  Can also buy a socket license for 1k, or buy from resellers with lower MOQ: e.g. https://m.cdw.com/product/oracle-vm-virtualbox-enterprise-license/2652849 https://m.cdw.com/product/oracle-vm-virtualbox-enterprise-li...
user5994461 8y ago
VMWare does the same thing. No idea why you'd think Oracle is the only competitor.
- bradstewart 8y ago
  Indeed. I find VMWare Workstation to be a significantly better product as well. I hate using VirtualBox.

amyjess 8y ago

If you live in a one-party state, secretly record them and then if Oracle threatens to sue, show them the recording and remind them of promissory estoppel. (IANAL!)

krylon 8y ago
In Germany, it is illegal to record phone conversations without the consents of the other party. Also, I don't think Oracle is going to sue over something like this. They really seem not to care. But they could change their mind tomorrow.
- amyjess 8y ago
  > In Germany, it is illegal to record phone conversations without the consents of the other party. Hence, "If you live in a one-party state." > Also, I don't think Oracle is going to sue over something like this. Check the other comments in the thread. People are reporting that Oracle is taking IP addresses of people who access the extensions site and if the IP address belongs to a company, they contact the company and threaten to sue.
  - krylon 8y ago
    > Hence, "If you live in a one-party state." I am sorry. In Germany, there is no such thing as a "one-party state". :-| > People are reporting that Oracle is taking IP addresses of people who access the extensions site and if the IP address belongs to a company, they contact the company and threaten to sue. Thank you for pointing this out. I stand corrected.
torstenvl 8y ago
Not really promissory estoppel, which can enforce a promise if you detrimentally relied on it. It's not really to your detriment to use the product for free, so it's not a perfect fit (unless maybe your company hired someone to administer the VMs, specifically based on his VirtualBox experience?). Some other possibilities would be the parol evidence rule (verbal exchanges between the contracting parties and their effect on contract interpretation) and possibly laches (no equitable remedy for folks who know about an infringement on their rights and do nothing about it... but money damages isn't an equity claim). (IAAL but I don't practice in this area, so same grain of salt applies)

JshWright 8y ago

This was my experience 6-7 years ago (shortly after the Sun/Oracle acquisition). Couldn't get a straight answer from anyone about how to license it (despite wanting to roll out many thousands of seats using it in a commercial product).