6 ms·

Slack just wiped out our data overnight

19 points by arjmandi 8y ago

demarq 8y ago
Lots of people shaming companies this week, but all of them including this one just don't sound justified at all. I mean an Iranian company using American products and expecting EU protection?! None of it makes any sense.
- cyphar 8y ago
  > I mean an Iranian company using American products and expecting EU protection?! None of it makes any sense. It should be noted that Slack has an office in Dublin so it very likely has an Irish subsidiary (just like Apple, Google, and half of the tech industry so they can avoid taxes) and thus is subject to EU requirements. The GDPR applies to them, and since they have an EU company they (I believe) need to obey GDPR requests from any source. [EDIT: This is incorrect.] But I can understand why Slack would cancel their account, since violating export sanctions is a really easy way to end up in gaol.
  - Crosseye_Jack 8y ago
    Nope. It covers data for EU/EEA citizens and residents data held by companies “doing business” with people in such areas. An off the top of my head example. An Australian citizen who has never been to the EU can not use the GRPR against Microsoft just because MS have a office in the EU. Edit: My bad, I think the Australian would be under the Dublin office in the slack case. But the GDPR rules are focused on data of EEA/EU residents/citizens and not (always) data of people outside of the EEA/EU collected by companies within the EEA/EU.
    - cyphar 8y ago
      Ah okay, that makes more sense.
    - arjmandi 8y ago
      My point is not a legal one, it's a moral point. If they've complied with the GDPR it means they even have processes and systems to give users their data but didn't have the decency to respect their customer and at least close their account in a much better way. The export law says you are banned to serve Iranian companies (!), Fine, but it definitely doesn't force you to f* your users in Iran!
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
- arjmandi 8y ago
  My point is not a legal one, it's a moral point. If they've complied with the GDPR it means they even have processes and systems to give users their data but didn't have the decency to respect their customer and at least close their account in a much better way. The export law says you are banned to serve Iranian companies (!), Fine, but it definitely doesn't force you to f* your users in Iran! This is not a fight over being an Iranian or an American or any other country. It does not have anything to do with politics. I'm just a service user, I used free and paid services and I have the right to download "my data" before closing my account.
Crosseye_Jack 8y ago
> If Slack has to comply with the export control law, they also need to comply with GDPR. Slack is an American company, GDPR is a EU law and OP is Iranian. That’s not how this works... Sure companies that operate within the EU have created tools to export your data automatically (they still have contact points to request the same data if you don’t have an account or were banned so can’t use the automated tools) so they opened those tools up to everyone not just those within the EU. But that doesn’t mean you are covered by the EU law and can demand your data. Only thing I would suggest is to lookup the GDPR email for slack and manually request the data. Though I wouldn’t expect anything. US companies are forbidden from doing business with Iran, US company discovered it was, closed down the account and refuses to continue that business relationship by handing over data. So sounds like standard policy to me. It would be like me getting banned off a game because I broke TOS (because OP did break TOS, it’s pretty much boilerplate and they have experienced this before so it’s not like they were not aware) and getting pissed off that I can not access my chat history any longer. OP was on borrowed time from the beginning. Does it suck? Sure it does. But what else you going to expect? For them to explicitly break the law after they discovered they were already in violation and took the steps needed to come under compliance because you didn’t read ToS, or (with them admitting this isn’t the first time they have got dinged by this law, probably the more likely) wilfully choose to ignore them.
- aaomidi 8y ago
  And what about other users who aren't breaking the law? Like me, who has been living in the US since 2011? These bans with no appeal processes are absolutely stupid. See my submissions for more context, but its helluva lot more people than a single incident. They seem to be banning anyone who sounds Iranian.
  - Crosseye_Jack 8y ago
    Op’s Post talks about how they are inside Iran. So in this case I still say it’s a valid account termination. If you are not accessing the service from Iran and you get dinged, contact support, supply supporting evidence and they will restore the account. This isn’t Slack picking on Iranians, this is “if slack don’t do this, they can get into a whole help of trouble”. I’m sure some people are going to get dinged by mistake but I honestly doubt they are banning people because of how their name sounds.
heyjudy 8y ago
I don't care whether the story is a wind-up or legit, there's a bigger principle. Want to maintain professionalism and integrity? Due process is important. You can't just slam the door closed in peoples' faces arbitrarily and go radio silent or word's going to get out that you're untrustworthy. Do right by people; don't be a dick. Otherwise: problems.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  The bigger story is in this case US law and foreign policy has been hijacked by Saudi Arabia and Israel.
- suff 8y ago
  Professionalism? Iran sends money to suicide bombers and you're complaining that our side lacks professionalism? UH, OK. How about not breaking the law? Does that mean anything to you?
  - arjmandi 8y ago
    This is not about governments. It's just a simple customer care matter. Different laws come and go, but a good company can always treat its customers better.
    - suff 8y ago
      Iran executes homosexuals. What part of 'sanctions' do you not understand??? This is not a debate. It is U.S. law. Deal with it.
arjmandi 8y ago
Slack just gave us back our access. I've updated the post on the medium. Thanks to you Slack!

19 points by arjmandi 8y ago

Lots of people shaming companies this week, but all of them including this one just don't sound justified at all. I mean an Iranian company using American products and expecting EU protection?! None of it makes any sense.

cyphar 8y ago
> I mean an Iranian company using American products and expecting EU protection?! None of it makes any sense. It should be noted that Slack has an office in Dublin so it very likely has an Irish subsidiary (just like Apple, Google, and half of the tech industry so they can avoid taxes) and thus is subject to EU requirements. The GDPR applies to them, and since they have an EU company they (I believe) need to obey GDPR requests from any source. [EDIT: This is incorrect.] But I can understand why Slack would cancel their account, since violating export sanctions is a really easy way to end up in gaol.
- Crosseye_Jack 8y ago
  Nope. It covers data for EU/EEA citizens and residents data held by companies “doing business” with people in such areas. An off the top of my head example. An Australian citizen who has never been to the EU can not use the GRPR against Microsoft just because MS have a office in the EU. Edit: My bad, I think the Australian would be under the Dublin office in the slack case. But the GDPR rules are focused on data of EEA/EU residents/citizens and not (always) data of people outside of the EEA/EU collected by companies within the EEA/EU.
  - cyphar 8y ago
    Ah okay, that makes more sense.
  - arjmandi 8y ago
    My point is not a legal one, it's a moral point. If they've complied with the GDPR it means they even have processes and systems to give users their data but didn't have the decency to respect their customer and at least close their account in a much better way. The export law says you are banned to serve Iranian companies (!), Fine, but it definitely doesn't force you to f* your users in Iran!
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
arjmandi 8y ago
My point is not a legal one, it's a moral point. If they've complied with the GDPR it means they even have processes and systems to give users their data but didn't have the decency to respect their customer and at least close their account in a much better way. The export law says you are banned to serve Iranian companies (!), Fine, but it definitely doesn't force you to f* your users in Iran! This is not a fight over being an Iranian or an American or any other country. It does not have anything to do with politics. I'm just a service user, I used free and paid services and I have the right to download "my data" before closing my account.

Crosseye_Jack 8y ago

> If Slack has to comply with the export control law, they also need to comply with GDPR. Slack is an American company, GDPR is a EU law and OP is Iranian. That’s not how this works... Sure companies that operate within the EU have created tools to export your data automatically (they still have contact points to request the same data if you don’t have an account or were banned so can’t use the automated tools) so they opened those tools up to everyone not just those within the EU. But that doesn’t mean you are covered by the EU law and can demand your data. Only thing I would suggest is to lookup the GDPR email for slack and manually request the data. Though I wouldn’t expect anything. US companies are forbidden from doing business with Iran, US company discovered it was, closed down the account and refuses to continue that business relationship by handing over data. So sounds like standard policy to me. It would be like me getting banned off a game because I broke TOS (because OP did break TOS, it’s pretty much boilerplate and they have experienced this before so it’s not like they were not aware) and getting pissed off that I can not access my chat history any longer. OP was on borrowed time from the beginning. Does it suck? Sure it does. But what else you going to expect? For them to explicitly break the law after they discovered they were already in violation and took the steps needed to come under compliance because you didn’t read ToS, or (with them admitting this isn’t the first time they have got dinged by this law, probably the more likely) wilfully choose to ignore them.

aaomidi 8y ago
And what about other users who aren't breaking the law? Like me, who has been living in the US since 2011? These bans with no appeal processes are absolutely stupid. See my submissions for more context, but its helluva lot more people than a single incident. They seem to be banning anyone who sounds Iranian.
- Crosseye_Jack 8y ago
  Op’s Post talks about how they are inside Iran. So in this case I still say it’s a valid account termination. If you are not accessing the service from Iran and you get dinged, contact support, supply supporting evidence and they will restore the account. This isn’t Slack picking on Iranians, this is “if slack don’t do this, they can get into a whole help of trouble”. I’m sure some people are going to get dinged by mistake but I honestly doubt they are banning people because of how their name sounds.

heyjudy 8y ago

I don't care whether the story is a wind-up or legit, there's a bigger principle. Want to maintain professionalism and integrity? Due process is important. You can't just slam the door closed in peoples' faces arbitrarily and go radio silent or word's going to get out that you're untrustworthy. Do right by people; don't be a dick. Otherwise: problems.

Gibbon1 8y ago
The bigger story is in this case US law and foreign policy has been hijacked by Saudi Arabia and Israel.
suff 8y ago
Professionalism? Iran sends money to suicide bombers and you're complaining that our side lacks professionalism? UH, OK. How about not breaking the law? Does that mean anything to you?
- arjmandi 8y ago
  This is not about governments. It's just a simple customer care matter. Different laws come and go, but a good company can always treat its customers better.
  - suff 8y ago
    Iran executes homosexuals. What part of 'sanctions' do you not understand??? This is not a debate. It is U.S. law. Deal with it.

arjmandi 8y ago

Slack just gave us back our access. I've updated the post on the medium. Thanks to you Slack!