5 ms·

The more I hear about 5G, the more I think it's an industry trying to sell a product that nobody is asking for. I have no complaints about the speed I get on my

by lykr0n 8y ago

The more I hear about 5G, the more I think it's an industry trying to sell a product that nobody is asking for. I have no complaints about the speed I get on my iPhone from T-Mobile here in the US. I wish I had better LTE coverage, but I'm happy with the performance. Most of the time it's snappier than my Wi-Fi (which is weird). I get a solid 8 to 20 mbits under fair conditions- I can stream movies and music just fine. All I hear about 5G is that it requires a large amount of antennas on both your phone (4 because a hand covering the antenna can cause a drop in signal) and around you. I don't want to be near a high power transmitter that's low frequency, and I really don't want to be near a high frequency one. What's the sell of 5G? I guess the speed, but what? 1 Gbit to my phone? Why. Considering that I only get 15GB of "Unlimited" data now, it isn't going to replace Wi-F. Because of the density required of the towers, it's not going to replace 4G/LTE as some areas it's just unrealistic to have the required density.

acchow 8y ago
You're still thinking in 2018 terms. What about 2025?
LeoPanthera 8y ago
640K ought to be enough for anybody.
awakeasleep 8y ago
Bandwidth is tremendously important in wireless communications because the more data you can transmit in less time, the less time you need to be transmitting. In general, only one radio can transmit on one frequency at a time. So a city wide network quickly becomes congested. Reducing the time everyone spends transmitting greatly increases the quality of service and the amount of users that can be serviced. The increased antenna count is also a benefit in crowded situations. If each antenna covers a smaller range, then more people can use the network in a given area- two antennas that would interfere with each other in a longer range system will operate simultaneously.
- lykr0n 8y ago
  They've solved that issue by deploying more towers in high density areas and carriers have swapped allocations in areas to get more continuous spectrum. Upping the frequency just gives you wider bands. I think a better argument could be made about spending R&D on making 4G/LTE require a smaller band. I think LTE (assuming 850MHz) can be 1.4, 3, 5, 10MHz per band- which is non-optional. If you could cut the required Tx/Rx band width in half; I think that would be better use of effort.
mdasen 8y ago
I think there are a few selling points. First, 5G should increase available bandwidth. Industry analysts are predicting that data usage will go up 7x between now and 2024. More speed/bandwidth can help with that. Without increasing capacity, would we just see our usage stagnate? Second, 5G should have much better ping times. Not only will this make browsing noticeably better, but it also means that latency applications can work well over wireless. Third, there's a decent possibility that 5G will bring home broadband competition. If you're fed up with Comcast or Charter, 5G could mean choice in your internet service. Fourth, I believe that 5G has a lot more flexibility than LTE. Part of that might mean low-power narrow connections that will allow cheap and battery-efficient sensor connections. Part of that might mean ultra-wide-band connections allowing for high-bandwidth devices that can't be served by the more limited carrier aggregation of LTE. Fifth, sometimes applications happen when the technology is there to accommodate it. The broad availability of broadband let Netflix pivot from shipping DVDs to streaming. Broadband has meant online gaming, richer online applications, digital distribution, etc. As mobile bandwidth increased, we went from loading music from our computer, to streaming music, to streaming video. I think the broadband speed you have to support in your applications tends to be 10Mbps+, but if that floor raises over the next 5 years, it could change which applications and experiences people invent. I mean, before the iPhone was announced, a lot of people wanted a phone dial pad on one side and an iPod click wheel on the other. People wanted Blackberries. The iPhone laid the technological foundation for all sorts of new experiences that people hadn't really thought about. Successive iPhones have been comparatively minor upgrades, but even then the faster processors, better screens, better wireless connectivity, etc. have allowed for better experiences to be built. -- It's also important to remember that there are different deployments of 5G. While Verizon has pushed out its ultra-high-band, short-range 5G, other companies are going to be rolling out 5G on more traditional spectrum offering much the same range as LTE. 5G NR is a new radio interface and it promises better spectral efficiency than LTE. I think it's also likely that many areas will see high-density deployments. Companies like Comcast run a wire to every house they serve and require coordination with property owners to get it into the building. If you could run a wire to one point every 18 acres, that's a lot easier (that's assuming a 500 ft transmission range). Higher density than that is certainly achievable in dense cities. It can certainly be hard to predict what a new technology might make happen. It's also possible that 5G won't make a huge impact beyond what LTE has already done.
Z1515M8147 8y ago
'Moar speed' is not really the point of 5g, and as usual the main advantages are not widely talked about because a lot of the media doesn't understand them and how to communicate more advanced concepts to readers. In my mind the biggest advantages and shifts in thinking are virtualization and network slicing [1], and enabling IOT [2]. [1] https://www.sdxcentral.com/5g/definitions/5g-virtualization/ https://www.sdxcentral.com/5g/definitions/5g-virtualization/ [2] https://www.ericsson.com/en/about-us/india/authored-articles/5g-and-iot-ushering-in-a-new-era https://www.ericsson.com/en/about-us/india/authored-articles...
pjc50 8y ago
The challenge is not so much to deliver 20mbit to one person, as to deliver anything at all to the several thousand people in the area of a tower, all of whom are waiting for their next push notification. With 4G I routinely see situations in busy areas where the phone claims "full bars" but data performance is sub-dialup.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- martinald 8y ago
  5G will not solve this problem. It cannot load much more bits/Hz of spectrum than LTE (iirc it is 10% or so more efficient, in ideal circumstances). More spectrum will solve this problem, and to be honest no reason LTE couldn't take advantage of that too, it is very good with channel aggregation.

by lykr0n 8y ago

acchow 8y ago

You're still thinking in 2018 terms. What about 2025?

LeoPanthera 8y ago

640K ought to be enough for anybody.

awakeasleep 8y ago

Bandwidth is tremendously important in wireless communications because the more data you can transmit in less time, the less time you need to be transmitting. In general, only one radio can transmit on one frequency at a time. So a city wide network quickly becomes congested. Reducing the time everyone spends transmitting greatly increases the quality of service and the amount of users that can be serviced. The increased antenna count is also a benefit in crowded situations. If each antenna covers a smaller range, then more people can use the network in a given area- two antennas that would interfere with each other in a longer range system will operate simultaneously.

lykr0n 8y ago
They've solved that issue by deploying more towers in high density areas and carriers have swapped allocations in areas to get more continuous spectrum. Upping the frequency just gives you wider bands. I think a better argument could be made about spending R&D on making 4G/LTE require a smaller band. I think LTE (assuming 850MHz) can be 1.4, 3, 5, 10MHz per band- which is non-optional. If you could cut the required Tx/Rx band width in half; I think that would be better use of effort.

mdasen 8y ago

I think there are a few selling points. First, 5G should increase available bandwidth. Industry analysts are predicting that data usage will go up 7x between now and 2024. More speed/bandwidth can help with that. Without increasing capacity, would we just see our usage stagnate? Second, 5G should have much better ping times. Not only will this make browsing noticeably better, but it also means that latency applications can work well over wireless. Third, there's a decent possibility that 5G will bring home broadband competition. If you're fed up with Comcast or Charter, 5G could mean choice in your internet service. Fourth, I believe that 5G has a lot more flexibility than LTE. Part of that might mean low-power narrow connections that will allow cheap and battery-efficient sensor connections. Part of that might mean ultra-wide-band connections allowing for high-bandwidth devices that can't be served by the more limited carrier aggregation of LTE. Fifth, sometimes applications happen when the technology is there to accommodate it. The broad availability of broadband let Netflix pivot from shipping DVDs to streaming. Broadband has meant online gaming, richer online applications, digital distribution, etc. As mobile bandwidth increased, we went from loading music from our computer, to streaming music, to streaming video. I think the broadband speed you have to support in your applications tends to be 10Mbps+, but if that floor raises over the next 5 years, it could change which applications and experiences people invent. I mean, before the iPhone was announced, a lot of people wanted a phone dial pad on one side and an iPod click wheel on the other. People wanted Blackberries. The iPhone laid the technological foundation for all sorts of new experiences that people hadn't really thought about. Successive iPhones have been comparatively minor upgrades, but even then the faster processors, better screens, better wireless connectivity, etc. have allowed for better experiences to be built. -- It's also important to remember that there are different deployments of 5G. While Verizon has pushed out its ultra-high-band, short-range 5G, other companies are going to be rolling out 5G on more traditional spectrum offering much the same range as LTE. 5G NR is a new radio interface and it promises better spectral efficiency than LTE. I think it's also likely that many areas will see high-density deployments. Companies like Comcast run a wire to every house they serve and require coordination with property owners to get it into the building. If you could run a wire to one point every 18 acres, that's a lot easier (that's assuming a 500 ft transmission range). Higher density than that is certainly achievable in dense cities. It can certainly be hard to predict what a new technology might make happen. It's also possible that 5G won't make a huge impact beyond what LTE has already done.

Z1515M8147 8y ago

'Moar speed' is not really the point of 5g, and as usual the main advantages are not widely talked about because a lot of the media doesn't understand them and how to communicate more advanced concepts to readers. In my mind the biggest advantages and shifts in thinking are virtualization and network slicing [1], and enabling IOT [2]. [1] https://www.sdxcentral.com/5g/definitions/5g-virtualization/ https://www.sdxcentral.com/5g/definitions/5g-virtualization/ [2] https://www.ericsson.com/en/about-us/india/authored-articles/5g-and-iot-ushering-in-a-new-era https://www.ericsson.com/en/about-us/india/authored-articles...

pjc50 8y ago

The challenge is not so much to deliver 20mbit to one person, as to deliver anything at all to the several thousand people in the area of a tower, all of whom are waiting for their next push notification. With 4G I routinely see situations in busy areas where the phone claims "full bars" but data performance is sub-dialup.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
martinald 8y ago
5G will not solve this problem. It cannot load much more bits/Hz of spectrum than LTE (iirc it is 10% or so more efficient, in ideal circumstances). More spectrum will solve this problem, and to be honest no reason LTE couldn't take advantage of that too, it is very good with channel aggregation.