3 ms·

> China no longer deserves its "developing economy" exemption Which exemption? The Paris Accord had China reducing their emissions by 45% on 2005 levels. The U

by A2017U1 8y ago

> China no longer deserves its "developing economy" exemption Which exemption? The Paris Accord had China reducing their emissions by 45% on 2005 levels. The US agreed to 25%. That's the two biggest polluters on Earth. Last year China met their target early. This year the US pulled out and wasn't on track to meet the reduction by late next decade. Who is really getting the exemption here?

mirimir 8y ago
That's all true. But arguably it was economic problems that enabled China to meet its commitment. So I'm not hopeful about prospects, if the Chinese economy picks up. And even if they claim to be on target, I'd want to see independent evidence. Maybe one can estimate from satellite data.[0] 0) https://co2.jpl.nasa.gov/ https://co2.jpl.nasa.gov/
- A2017U1 8y ago
  It's one of the few things they've done right, carbon tax, pushing vehicle electrification, cancelling new coal generation. But yes do agree the system is hardly perfect, for instance theres been a spike in illegal cfc-11 coming out of southern China, and while the authorities talk tough and have shut down numerous operators they struggle with enforcement in general and more pop up anyway. Likewise gas wells in the states have been found to be producing far more fugitive emissions of methane which is incredibly harmful but again not recorded. To top it all off emissions are only measured for a countries production not consumption, a big beef exporter gets the blame for another's hamburger. Which seems somewhat unjust. https://www.chemistryworld.com/opinion/the-china-cfc-dilemma/3009280.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/opinion/the-china-cfc-dilemma... https://theconversation.com/the-us-natural-gas-industry-is-leaking-way-more-methane-than-previously-thought-heres-why-that-matters-98918 https://theconversation.com/the-us-natural-gas-industry-is-l...
  - mirimir 8y ago
    > To top it all off emissions are only measured for a countries production not consumption, a big beef exporter gets the blame for another's hamburger. Yes. The US, Europe, etc offloaded lots of carbon emissions to China. Along with lots of toxic chemical pollution. And even with regulation, as you note, enforcement -- or even knowing what's happening -- is hugely problematic. It's funny, given my stance on privacy, but we really need emissions data for greenhouse gases that's unbiased and reliable. Then we could negotiate who does what, and who pays for it, based on actual data. Not that I'm at all optimistic about the prospects for that :( Edit: And damn. I hadn't heard about the CFC-11 issue. When I read your comment, I was thinking of long-lived radiative forcing CFCs.
lixtra 8y ago
Is there some dashboard where you can see how nations are doing in reaching their CO2 targets?
- mirimir 8y ago
  Some good sources https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/are-countries-being-honest-about-their-carbon-emissions-satellites-could-tell https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/are-countries-being-... https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/estimation-fossil-fuel-co2-emissions-using-satellite-measurements-proxy-species https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/estimation-fossil-fu... https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/sites/default/files/FileRepository/Events/Copenhagen/12_TNO_Improvement%20of%20emission%20data%20using%20satellite%20data_deniervdgon_webversion.pdf https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/sites/default/files/FileRep...

mirimir 8y ago

That's all true. But arguably it was economic problems that enabled China to meet its commitment. So I'm not hopeful about prospects, if the Chinese economy picks up. And even if they claim to be on target, I'd want to see independent evidence. Maybe one can estimate from satellite data.[0] 0) https://co2.jpl.nasa.gov/ https://co2.jpl.nasa.gov/

A2017U1 8y ago
It's one of the few things they've done right, carbon tax, pushing vehicle electrification, cancelling new coal generation. But yes do agree the system is hardly perfect, for instance theres been a spike in illegal cfc-11 coming out of southern China, and while the authorities talk tough and have shut down numerous operators they struggle with enforcement in general and more pop up anyway. Likewise gas wells in the states have been found to be producing far more fugitive emissions of methane which is incredibly harmful but again not recorded. To top it all off emissions are only measured for a countries production not consumption, a big beef exporter gets the blame for another's hamburger. Which seems somewhat unjust. https://www.chemistryworld.com/opinion/the-china-cfc-dilemma/3009280.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/opinion/the-china-cfc-dilemma... https://theconversation.com/the-us-natural-gas-industry-is-leaking-way-more-methane-than-previously-thought-heres-why-that-matters-98918 https://theconversation.com/the-us-natural-gas-industry-is-l...
- mirimir 8y ago
  > To top it all off emissions are only measured for a countries production not consumption, a big beef exporter gets the blame for another's hamburger. Yes. The US, Europe, etc offloaded lots of carbon emissions to China. Along with lots of toxic chemical pollution. And even with regulation, as you note, enforcement -- or even knowing what's happening -- is hugely problematic. It's funny, given my stance on privacy, but we really need emissions data for greenhouse gases that's unbiased and reliable. Then we could negotiate who does what, and who pays for it, based on actual data. Not that I'm at all optimistic about the prospects for that :( Edit: And damn. I hadn't heard about the CFC-11 issue. When I read your comment, I was thinking of long-lived radiative forcing CFCs.

lixtra 8y ago

Is there some dashboard where you can see how nations are doing in reaching their CO2 targets?

mirimir 8y ago
Some good sources https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/are-countries-being-honest-about-their-carbon-emissions-satellites-could-tell https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/are-countries-being-... https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/estimation-fossil-fuel-co2-emissions-using-satellite-measurements-proxy-species https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/estimation-fossil-fu... https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/sites/default/files/FileRepository/Events/Copenhagen/12_TNO_Improvement%20of%20emission%20data%20using%20satellite%20data_deniervdgon_webversion.pdf https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/sites/default/files/FileRep...