10 ms·

I wonder if we will see another extension since Mickey is getting close to the chopping block again.

by NeoBasilisk 8y ago

walterbell 8y ago
The entertainment industry has backed down from seeking copyright extensions.
- justtopost 8y ago
  Citation needed.
  - walterbell 8y ago
    The political environment and visibility around copyright issues has evolved, and there are other legal avenues that can be pursued by Disney. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16096448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16096448 > Will Congress do the same thing again this year? To find out, we talked to groups on both sides of the nation's copyright debate—to digital rights advocates at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Public Knowledge and to industry groups like the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America. To our surprise, there seemed to be universal agreement that another copyright extension was unlikely to be on the agenda this year. "We are not aware of any such efforts, and it's not something we are pursuing," an RIAA spokesman told us when we asked about legislation to retroactively extend copyright terms. "While copyright term has been a longstanding topic of conversation in policy circles, we are not aware of any legislative proposals to address the issue," the MPAA told us. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/01/well-probably-never-free-mickey-thats-beside-point https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/01/well-probably-never-fr... > we expect that Disney will try to use another body of law to suppress creativity and commerce involving Mickey Mouse, whether or not "Steamboat Willie" and "Plane Crazy" are in the public domain: trademark law. If you sell something Mickeyish—including its public domain cartoons—Disney might ask a court to stop you because people who buy the cartoons from you may think they're buying from Disney.
    - ryacko 8y ago
      Maybe Mickey is not popular anymore, and Disney is moving on to newer IPs.
  - IMTDb 8y ago
    "walterbell, HackeNews - Dec 2018"
- pwg 8y ago
  I wonder what effect the huge SOPA/PIPA outcry had on this change in position?
- dannyobrien 8y ago
  They recently successfully lobbied for for life + 70 in TPP, and includes a similar provision in the USMCA (the successor to NAFTA) to compel Canada to bring its copyright term up to life + 70 also. The aim is to establish a new global norm of life + 70 / 95 years for corporate works, as opposed the Berne minimum of 50 years. There’s still plenty of room to ratchet. Mexico, the other USMCA signatory, has life + 100 years. (Disclosure: I work on this at EFF)
leowoo91 8y ago
Many are reading, probably: http://copyright.nova.edu/mickey-public-domain/ http://copyright.nova.edu/mickey-public-domain/
josho 8y ago
Disney has prepared for this moment. They have registered trademarks for every aspect of mickey mouse (e.g. the name, his silhouette, etc). So, yes the original B&W steamboat willie video will enter the public domain, but mickey mouse as a brand will continue forever as trademarks do not expire.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  I don't understand why this wasn't the original strategy. Surely even in 1998, Steamboat Willie itself wasn't making much money. Trademarking Mickey makes much more sense.
  - gwern 8y ago
    I've wondered myself, and from reading the commentary on Ars (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/hollywood-says-its-not-planning-another-copyright-extension-push/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/hollywood-says-i...) and elsewhere, the answer seems to be something like: in 1998 they could do so easily, and why take the risk of letting Steamboat Willie slip? They could, so they did. In ~2015-2018, it wasn't looking nearly so easy (and there was now Big Tech opposition to reckon with), so the calculus changed.
    - Aloha 8y ago
      Steamboat Willie is of virtually no commercial value now - honestly very little that Disney made prior to 1938 has commercial value or had it 1998.
      - rixrax 8y ago
        Notably 'Snow White and the seven dwarfs' was released in 1937[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Pictures_films#1930s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Pictures_f...
        Aloha 8y ago
Asooka 8y ago
Disney have Marvel now, which is printing money. I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while, they might actually let him enter the public domain. There would probably still be many restrictions on his use, his iconic shape is probably some form of trademark as well.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_and_the_Roadster_Racers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_and_the_Roadster_Race...
- jeremymcanally 8y ago
  > I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while... They recently produced a number of shorts (like 3 seasons worth) starring Mickey, there are a few shows out starring him on the toddler focused market, they're building a keystone attraction at Disney's Hollywood Studios around Mickey, they use him extensively in the parks still in new ways, etc. He is still in very heavy use throughout the company, but I don't think Steamboat Willie entering the public domain will damage that. :)
- jumelles 8y ago
  This year was actually Mickey's "90th birthday" and Disney did a massive amount of promotion and advertising. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/business/media/mickey-mouse-anniversary-90th.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/business/media/mickey-mou...
- maxsilver 8y ago
  > I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while Check out Disney Junior. There's like 3 or 4 different unique TV shows on-air daily that all feature Mickey Mouse in one form or another. (Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Micky and the Roadster Racers, Minnie's Bow-Toons, Tsum Tsum, Mouskersize, probably a few more.). And that's just the shows -- there's brand new Mickey merch in toy stores all across America today. (There's even a Steamboat Willie plush toy in Target stores nationwide right now, if it hasn't already sold out - https://www.target.com/p/disney-mickey-mouse-90th-special-edition-steamboat-willie/-/A-53328454 https://www.target.com/p/disney-mickey-mouse-90th-special-ed... ) We aren't in the target demographic for this stuff, so it's easy to forget about it. But Disney heavily promotes Mickey to the very young kids.
hinkley 8y ago
The surprise for me was learning that Disney is almost as worried about Winnie the Pooh as they are about Mickey. He’s nearly the same age and they sell a ton of merch.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  I would expect them to be more worried about Winnie the Pooh given the impact of China and Xi's sheer irrational hatred and sweeping bans over the one image comparing the two.
- smelendez 8y ago
  The Pooh character from Milne's first book is arguably more marketable than Steamboat Willie. Another studio could easily do a Pooh reboot with a new animation style and compete with Disney. I'd argue Mickey is more valuable as an icon than a character. And he's so associated with Walt Disney I'm not sure another company would ever be taken seriously making new Mickey material. People know Pooh,Piglet,Eeyore, etc. as personality types. Not sure that's true for Mickey, Minney and friends.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Yup. Mickey == Disney, it's pretty much a brand symbol. Nobody is going to touch that. Winnie the Pooh... I didn't know until now that it's even associated with Disney in any way. I grew up reading & watching it as a kid, and even this year I saw Christopher Robin in the cinema (I must have mentally tuned out Disney logo at the beginning). Point being, it's a franchise now, and it still sells like hot cakes, to adults. All the adult friends I know have a sentiment to Winnie the Pooh, and are - or are going to - show it to their kids. Not surprised Disney would want to protect that.
- Mindwipe 8y ago
  It's also complicated by the fact that Pooh is unambiguously in copyright in Europe until 2027.
RickSanchez2600 8y ago
Superman and Batman too are old enough to enter the PD, or at least the old comic books are.

I wonder if we will see another extension since Mickey is getting close to the chopping block again.

walterbell 8y ago

The entertainment industry has backed down from seeking copyright extensions.

justtopost 8y ago
Citation needed.
- walterbell 8y ago
  The political environment and visibility around copyright issues has evolved, and there are other legal avenues that can be pursued by Disney. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16096448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16096448 > Will Congress do the same thing again this year? To find out, we talked to groups on both sides of the nation's copyright debate—to digital rights advocates at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Public Knowledge and to industry groups like the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America. To our surprise, there seemed to be universal agreement that another copyright extension was unlikely to be on the agenda this year. "We are not aware of any such efforts, and it's not something we are pursuing," an RIAA spokesman told us when we asked about legislation to retroactively extend copyright terms. "While copyright term has been a longstanding topic of conversation in policy circles, we are not aware of any legislative proposals to address the issue," the MPAA told us. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/01/well-probably-never-free-mickey-thats-beside-point https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/01/well-probably-never-fr... > we expect that Disney will try to use another body of law to suppress creativity and commerce involving Mickey Mouse, whether or not "Steamboat Willie" and "Plane Crazy" are in the public domain: trademark law. If you sell something Mickeyish—including its public domain cartoons—Disney might ask a court to stop you because people who buy the cartoons from you may think they're buying from Disney.
  - ryacko 8y ago
    Maybe Mickey is not popular anymore, and Disney is moving on to newer IPs.
- IMTDb 8y ago
  "walterbell, HackeNews - Dec 2018"
pwg 8y ago
I wonder what effect the huge SOPA/PIPA outcry had on this change in position?
dannyobrien 8y ago
They recently successfully lobbied for for life + 70 in TPP, and includes a similar provision in the USMCA (the successor to NAFTA) to compel Canada to bring its copyright term up to life + 70 also. The aim is to establish a new global norm of life + 70 / 95 years for corporate works, as opposed the Berne minimum of 50 years. There’s still plenty of room to ratchet. Mexico, the other USMCA signatory, has life + 100 years. (Disclosure: I work on this at EFF)

leowoo91 8y ago

Many are reading, probably: http://copyright.nova.edu/mickey-public-domain/ http://copyright.nova.edu/mickey-public-domain/

josho 8y ago

Disney has prepared for this moment. They have registered trademarks for every aspect of mickey mouse (e.g. the name, his silhouette, etc). So, yes the original B&W steamboat willie video will enter the public domain, but mickey mouse as a brand will continue forever as trademarks do not expire.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
I don't understand why this wasn't the original strategy. Surely even in 1998, Steamboat Willie itself wasn't making much money. Trademarking Mickey makes much more sense.
- gwern 8y ago
  I've wondered myself, and from reading the commentary on Ars (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/hollywood-says-its-not-planning-another-copyright-extension-push/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/hollywood-says-i...) and elsewhere, the answer seems to be something like: in 1998 they could do so easily, and why take the risk of letting Steamboat Willie slip? They could, so they did. In ~2015-2018, it wasn't looking nearly so easy (and there was now Big Tech opposition to reckon with), so the calculus changed.
  - Aloha 8y ago
    Steamboat Willie is of virtually no commercial value now - honestly very little that Disney made prior to 1938 has commercial value or had it 1998.
    - rixrax 8y ago
      Notably 'Snow White and the seven dwarfs' was released in 1937[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Pictures_films#1930s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Pictures_f...
      - Aloha 8y ago

Asooka 8y ago

Disney have Marvel now, which is printing money. I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while, they might actually let him enter the public domain. There would probably still be many restrictions on his use, his iconic shape is probably some form of trademark as well.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_and_the_Roadster_Racers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_and_the_Roadster_Race...
jeremymcanally 8y ago
> I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while... They recently produced a number of shorts (like 3 seasons worth) starring Mickey, there are a few shows out starring him on the toddler focused market, they're building a keystone attraction at Disney's Hollywood Studios around Mickey, they use him extensively in the parks still in new ways, etc. He is still in very heavy use throughout the company, but I don't think Steamboat Willie entering the public domain will damage that. :)
jumelles 8y ago
This year was actually Mickey's "90th birthday" and Disney did a massive amount of promotion and advertising. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/business/media/mickey-mouse-anniversary-90th.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/business/media/mickey-mou...
maxsilver 8y ago
> I don't think they've done anything Mickey-related in a long while Check out Disney Junior. There's like 3 or 4 different unique TV shows on-air daily that all feature Mickey Mouse in one form or another. (Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Micky and the Roadster Racers, Minnie's Bow-Toons, Tsum Tsum, Mouskersize, probably a few more.). And that's just the shows -- there's brand new Mickey merch in toy stores all across America today. (There's even a Steamboat Willie plush toy in Target stores nationwide right now, if it hasn't already sold out - https://www.target.com/p/disney-mickey-mouse-90th-special-edition-steamboat-willie/-/A-53328454 https://www.target.com/p/disney-mickey-mouse-90th-special-ed... ) We aren't in the target demographic for this stuff, so it's easy to forget about it. But Disney heavily promotes Mickey to the very young kids.

hinkley 8y ago

The surprise for me was learning that Disney is almost as worried about Winnie the Pooh as they are about Mickey. He’s nearly the same age and they sell a ton of merch.

Nasrudith 8y ago
I would expect them to be more worried about Winnie the Pooh given the impact of China and Xi's sheer irrational hatred and sweeping bans over the one image comparing the two.
smelendez 8y ago
The Pooh character from Milne's first book is arguably more marketable than Steamboat Willie. Another studio could easily do a Pooh reboot with a new animation style and compete with Disney. I'd argue Mickey is more valuable as an icon than a character. And he's so associated with Walt Disney I'm not sure another company would ever be taken seriously making new Mickey material. People know Pooh,Piglet,Eeyore, etc. as personality types. Not sure that's true for Mickey, Minney and friends.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Yup. Mickey == Disney, it's pretty much a brand symbol. Nobody is going to touch that. Winnie the Pooh... I didn't know until now that it's even associated with Disney in any way. I grew up reading & watching it as a kid, and even this year I saw Christopher Robin in the cinema (I must have mentally tuned out Disney logo at the beginning). Point being, it's a franchise now, and it still sells like hot cakes, to adults. All the adult friends I know have a sentiment to Winnie the Pooh, and are - or are going to - show it to their kids. Not surprised Disney would want to protect that.
Mindwipe 8y ago
It's also complicated by the fact that Pooh is unambiguously in copyright in Europe until 2027.

RickSanchez2600 8y ago

Superman and Batman too are old enough to enter the PD, or at least the old comic books are.