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Elixir's primary database wrapper, Ecto [0], lets you dynamically build queries at runtime, and also isn't an ORM. Here's two examples directly from the docs:

Elixir's primary database wrapper, Ecto [0], lets you dynamically build queries at runtime, and also isn't an ORM. Here's two examples directly from the docs: # Query all rows in the "users" table, filtering for users whose age is > 18, and selecting their name "users" |> where([u], u.age > 18) |> select([u], u.name) # Build a dynamic query fragment based on some parameters dynamic = false dynamic = if params["is_public"] do dynamic([p], p.is_public or ^dynamic) else dynamic end dynamic = if params["allow_reviewers"] do dynamic([p, a], a.reviewer == true or ^dynamic) else dynamic end from "posts", where: ^dynamic Across all the different means of interacting with a database I have experience with (from full-fledged ORMs like ActiveRecord, to sprocs in ASP.NET), I've found that it offers the best compromise between providing an ergonomic abstraction over the database, and not hiding all of the nitty-gritty details you need to worry about in order to write performant queries or use database-specific features like triggers or window functions. My main point, though, is that you don't need to reach for NoSQL if all you need is a way to compose queries without string interpolation. [0] https://github.com/elixir-ecto/ecto https://github.com/elixir-ecto/ecto

inferiorhuman 8y ago
> Across all the different means of interacting with a database I have experience with (from full-fledged ORMs like ActiveRecord, to sprocs in ASP.NET), I've found that it offers the best compromise between providing an ergonomic abstraction over the database, and not hiding all of the nitty-gritty details you need to worry about in order to write performant queries or use database-specific features like triggers or window functions. Ahh Elixir. My favorite language that really just tries so hard to shoot itself in the foot. I'm currently in the protracted process of trying to upgrade a Phoenix app to the current versions. Currently I'm at the rewrite it in Rust and try out Rocket + Diesel stage. Diesel is... interesting and makes me long for Ecto (which is often used as an ORM although the model bits got split off into a different project).
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  Love the downvotes instead of comments. I've walked away from Elixir as the best practice deployment methodology (Distillery) is non-op on FreeBSD[1] and has been for a few months while the Distillery author is mum. All of this despite the vast love that the Elixir community seems to heap on FreeBSD. Erlang and Elixir have plenty of promise but there simply is no good story for production deployments. Distillery and edeliver approximate capistrano, and that sounds great when it works (although I'd just as soon skip edeliver). But when it doesn't I'd much rather dig into the mess of ruby that is Capistrano than the mess of shell scripts, erlang, and god knows what else goes into a Distillery release. Elixir is a really interesting language, but Phoenix seems to still be pretty wet behind the ears and very much in flux. Ecto too to a much smaller extent. 1: Some of the distillery scripts can communicate with epmd, some just give up.
quietbritishjim 8y ago
As I said to a sibling response, this is not a substitute for Mongo's aggregation pipeline unless it can do analogous things to Postgres's JSONB fields. For example, can it unwind an array field, match those subrecords where one field (like a "key") matches a value and another field (like a "value") exceeds an overall value, and then apply this condition to filter the overall rows in the table? Also, one of the benefits of Mongo's API is that it has excellent native implementations in numerous languages (we already use C++ and Python), so a suggestion to switch language entirely is not really equivalent.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  > As I said to a sibling response, this is not a substitute for Mongo's aggregation pipeline Huh? The aggregation framework is a solution to a mongo-only problem. Most other databases are performant, but Mongo suffers wildly from coarse locking and slow performance putting things into and retrieving things from the javascript VM. > For example, can it unwind an array field, match those subrecords where one field (like a "key") matches a value and another field (like a "value") exceeds an overall value, and then apply this condition to filter the overall rows in the table? This sounds suspiciously like a SQL view. Edit: But if you actually need an array in a cell, Postgres has an array type that's also a first-class citizen with plenty of tooling around it.
  - quietbritishjim 8y ago
    The "this" was referring to dynamically building queries (the GP comment by me) in Ecto (the parent comment by QuinnWilton). What you've said is a non-sequitur in the context of this little discussion. My whole original point is that raw SQL isn't right in all situations, and you appear to be arguing that I just use SQL instead.
    - inferiorhuman 8y ago
      I can't speak to every ORM or database interface in existence but ActiveRecord will happily handle Postgres arrays and let you use the built-in array functions just handily without having to write queries by hand. Ecto is less elegant, but you can still finangle some arrays with it. As far as views are concerned, I don't know what to tell you. Sure, you'll probably have to craft the view itself by hand. The result is that you can then use most abstractions of your choosing on top of it though.

inferiorhuman 8y ago

> Across all the different means of interacting with a database I have experience with (from full-fledged ORMs like ActiveRecord, to sprocs in ASP.NET), I've found that it offers the best compromise between providing an ergonomic abstraction over the database, and not hiding all of the nitty-gritty details you need to worry about in order to write performant queries or use database-specific features like triggers or window functions. Ahh Elixir. My favorite language that really just tries so hard to shoot itself in the foot. I'm currently in the protracted process of trying to upgrade a Phoenix app to the current versions. Currently I'm at the rewrite it in Rust and try out Rocket + Diesel stage. Diesel is... interesting and makes me long for Ecto (which is often used as an ORM although the model bits got split off into a different project).

inferiorhuman 8y ago
Love the downvotes instead of comments. I've walked away from Elixir as the best practice deployment methodology (Distillery) is non-op on FreeBSD[1] and has been for a few months while the Distillery author is mum. All of this despite the vast love that the Elixir community seems to heap on FreeBSD. Erlang and Elixir have plenty of promise but there simply is no good story for production deployments. Distillery and edeliver approximate capistrano, and that sounds great when it works (although I'd just as soon skip edeliver). But when it doesn't I'd much rather dig into the mess of ruby that is Capistrano than the mess of shell scripts, erlang, and god knows what else goes into a Distillery release. Elixir is a really interesting language, but Phoenix seems to still be pretty wet behind the ears and very much in flux. Ecto too to a much smaller extent. 1: Some of the distillery scripts can communicate with epmd, some just give up.

quietbritishjim 8y ago

As I said to a sibling response, this is not a substitute for Mongo's aggregation pipeline unless it can do analogous things to Postgres's JSONB fields. For example, can it unwind an array field, match those subrecords where one field (like a "key") matches a value and another field (like a "value") exceeds an overall value, and then apply this condition to filter the overall rows in the table? Also, one of the benefits of Mongo's API is that it has excellent native implementations in numerous languages (we already use C++ and Python), so a suggestion to switch language entirely is not really equivalent.

inferiorhuman 8y ago
> As I said to a sibling response, this is not a substitute for Mongo's aggregation pipeline Huh? The aggregation framework is a solution to a mongo-only problem. Most other databases are performant, but Mongo suffers wildly from coarse locking and slow performance putting things into and retrieving things from the javascript VM. > For example, can it unwind an array field, match those subrecords where one field (like a "key") matches a value and another field (like a "value") exceeds an overall value, and then apply this condition to filter the overall rows in the table? This sounds suspiciously like a SQL view. Edit: But if you actually need an array in a cell, Postgres has an array type that's also a first-class citizen with plenty of tooling around it.
- quietbritishjim 8y ago
  The "this" was referring to dynamically building queries (the GP comment by me) in Ecto (the parent comment by QuinnWilton). What you've said is a non-sequitur in the context of this little discussion. My whole original point is that raw SQL isn't right in all situations, and you appear to be arguing that I just use SQL instead.
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    I can't speak to every ORM or database interface in existence but ActiveRecord will happily handle Postgres arrays and let you use the built-in array functions just handily without having to write queries by hand. Ecto is less elegant, but you can still finangle some arrays with it. As far as views are concerned, I don't know what to tell you. Sure, you'll probably have to craft the view itself by hand. The result is that you can then use most abstractions of your choosing on top of it though.