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I'm at a loss as to why the US is still dead set to have no meaningful health coverage. I got burned by this in California a decade ago. A dentist charged me $

I'm at a loss as to why the US is still dead set to have no meaningful health coverage. I got burned by this in California a decade ago. A dentist charged me $4,500 to fix a broken tooth (panic!) and fill in a cavity on a Sunday. Had I known then what it might have cost I'd have simply flown back to Europe in the next flight ($600-800 at the time) and get the same thing done for under $100-200 with a full refund from my local social security. Adding insult to injury I had a very expensive international health insurance policy owing to my traveling around the world back then. And they didn't cover dental with my plan. I knew they wouldn't. But it was still mind boggling to me in that I never expected a casual procedure that would have cost me €150 at most anywhere in Europe - most of which would have gotten refunded at that - to cost me a whopping $4,500 in the US.

russdill 8y ago
The US healthcare system is the equivalent of xkcd's TornadoGuard app. https://xkcd.com/937/ https://xkcd.com/937/ You only find out just how badly it works when you need it the most.
jessaustin 8y ago
USA dentists don't work on Sunday. If you had waited until Monday you would have had many more options. Besides what could she have possibly done to "fix a broken tooth" in one day? Nobody was milling crowns in the office a decade ago. If it was really just a filling, wow. Do dentists in Europe work on Sunday? In my experience the grocery stores aren't even open...
- arethuza 8y ago
  I've had emergency dental treatment in an NHS hospital in the UK for an extremely painful dental abscess - was treated first thing on a Sunday morning.
  - chimeracoder 8y ago
    > I've had emergency dental treatment in an NHS hospital in the UK for an extremely painful dental abscess - was treated first thing on a Sunday morning. Emergency dental care is provided in the US as well. Filling a cavity is not considered an emergency.
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      Very few oral problems are emergent. GP's abscess would have been visible on examination for months, and certainly was uncomfortable before it was extremely painful. In many cases the first treatment is a course of antibiotics, which any USA ER could administer perfectly well.
      - arethuza 8y ago
        "certainly was uncomfortable before it was extremely painful" Actually it wasn't - went from nothing to blinding pain as if someone threw a switch. I'd have 10-15 minutes of agony then it turned off for the same time and it repeated at that frequency all of the Saturday until a GP came out on the Saturday evening and gave me painkillers and told me to go to the emergency dental clinic the next day. It was right in the middle of my 3 years exams at University - which was a bit of bad timing!
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  Hah, there's not a dentist in my entire County that works on Friday either. I've been in the situation where I've called each and every one, all closed Fri-Mon.
modriano 8y ago
>I'm at a loss as to why the US is still dead set to have no meaningful health coverage. The US isn't a monolith. The majority of the population very much wants meaningful health coverage, but thanks to Supreme Court decisions like Citizens United, corporations are entitled to free political expression under the first Amendment, so they can give unlimited amounts of money to political candidates. This allows uberwealthy individuals to form corporations for the explicit purpose of installing anti-taxation cronies into legislatures at both the state and national level. Our political process is very corrupt, and it's taken a national emergency (Trump's Presidency) to wake people up. The 2018 midterms demonstrated that far more citizens are paying attention and plan on voting, so hopefully the US goes single payer soon, but it's going to be a brutal political fight.
- bootaccount 8y ago
  advertising is the biggest thing 'educating' voters, and usually it's usually something along the lines of here's why <party> <candidate> is bad, vote for me instead. News media is trash and unreliable as they too pander to advertisers or are just spewing nationally distributed talking points. Bernie who was the most vocal about changes was taken out by Hillary, but no one batted an eye. No one really wants change to the healthcare and pharma industry as it will hurt the entire ecosystem (especially advertising $).
Delmania 8y ago
The health insurance industry spends millions in donations to politicians on both sides. So, the reason we have a poor health insurance industry is money.
gammateam 8y ago
Alot of people do ‘simply’ fly back to Europe
gammateam 8y ago
There is no political will to subsidize healthcare if the health costs themselves arent fixed This second aspect has never been addressed on a national level, or barely at all. At the state level, if you think of them as their own countries some do have very accessible programs. Some even having universal healthcare in that state. So the US is complicated. And then there is the distrust of how people of other cultures in our country would use a subsidy if it isnt clear that they have the same ethics and motives. This exacerbates many political issues.
kwhitefoot 8y ago
Even here in Norway, even on a Sunday it wouldn't have cost anywhere close to USD 4500. I have asked colleagues in the US about the cost of dentistry and most of it even when booked in advance is noticeably more expensive than here. But of course here we have full transparency, I can shop around.
e40 8y ago
I'm at a loss as to why the US is still dead set to have no meaningful health coverage. Because disinformation campaigns have pushed people to vote against their interests.
justaguyhere 8y ago
There was a story about an Indian guy - he flew all the way from California, spent two weeks in India, took a bunch of MRI etc scans and went back. The entire of the trip, including airfare, hotel, scans etc was less than the cost of a scan in the U.S. Not sure how much of this is true (and yes, I do realize I shouldn't be comparing US with a developing country like India, cost wise), but it is definitely believable.
- liveoneggs 8y ago
  medical tourism is a booming industry in places where US doctors tend to originate :)
  - Balgair 8y ago
    Given Theil's penchant for SnowCrash style Rafts, I'm surprised he hasn't parked an old oil tanker in international waters just off LA, retrofitted it for outpatient procedures and a helipad.

russdill 8y ago

The US healthcare system is the equivalent of xkcd's TornadoGuard app. https://xkcd.com/937/ https://xkcd.com/937/ You only find out just how badly it works when you need it the most.

jessaustin 8y ago

USA dentists don't work on Sunday. If you had waited until Monday you would have had many more options. Besides what could she have possibly done to "fix a broken tooth" in one day? Nobody was milling crowns in the office a decade ago. If it was really just a filling, wow. Do dentists in Europe work on Sunday? In my experience the grocery stores aren't even open...

arethuza 8y ago
I've had emergency dental treatment in an NHS hospital in the UK for an extremely painful dental abscess - was treated first thing on a Sunday morning.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > I've had emergency dental treatment in an NHS hospital in the UK for an extremely painful dental abscess - was treated first thing on a Sunday morning. Emergency dental care is provided in the US as well. Filling a cavity is not considered an emergency.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    Very few oral problems are emergent. GP's abscess would have been visible on examination for months, and certainly was uncomfortable before it was extremely painful. In many cases the first treatment is a course of antibiotics, which any USA ER could administer perfectly well.
    - arethuza 8y ago
      "certainly was uncomfortable before it was extremely painful" Actually it wasn't - went from nothing to blinding pain as if someone threw a switch. I'd have 10-15 minutes of agony then it turned off for the same time and it repeated at that frequency all of the Saturday until a GP came out on the Saturday evening and gave me painkillers and told me to go to the emergency dental clinic the next day. It was right in the middle of my 3 years exams at University - which was a bit of bad timing!
FireBeyond 8y ago
Hah, there's not a dentist in my entire County that works on Friday either. I've been in the situation where I've called each and every one, all closed Fri-Mon.

modriano 8y ago

>I'm at a loss as to why the US is still dead set to have no meaningful health coverage. The US isn't a monolith. The majority of the population very much wants meaningful health coverage, but thanks to Supreme Court decisions like Citizens United, corporations are entitled to free political expression under the first Amendment, so they can give unlimited amounts of money to political candidates. This allows uberwealthy individuals to form corporations for the explicit purpose of installing anti-taxation cronies into legislatures at both the state and national level. Our political process is very corrupt, and it's taken a national emergency (Trump's Presidency) to wake people up. The 2018 midterms demonstrated that far more citizens are paying attention and plan on voting, so hopefully the US goes single payer soon, but it's going to be a brutal political fight.

bootaccount 8y ago
advertising is the biggest thing 'educating' voters, and usually it's usually something along the lines of here's why <party> <candidate> is bad, vote for me instead. News media is trash and unreliable as they too pander to advertisers or are just spewing nationally distributed talking points. Bernie who was the most vocal about changes was taken out by Hillary, but no one batted an eye. No one really wants change to the healthcare and pharma industry as it will hurt the entire ecosystem (especially advertising $).

Delmania 8y ago

The health insurance industry spends millions in donations to politicians on both sides. So, the reason we have a poor health insurance industry is money.

gammateam 8y ago

Alot of people do ‘simply’ fly back to Europe

gammateam 8y ago

There is no political will to subsidize healthcare if the health costs themselves arent fixed This second aspect has never been addressed on a national level, or barely at all. At the state level, if you think of them as their own countries some do have very accessible programs. Some even having universal healthcare in that state. So the US is complicated. And then there is the distrust of how people of other cultures in our country would use a subsidy if it isnt clear that they have the same ethics and motives. This exacerbates many political issues.

kwhitefoot 8y ago

Even here in Norway, even on a Sunday it wouldn't have cost anywhere close to USD 4500. I have asked colleagues in the US about the cost of dentistry and most of it even when booked in advance is noticeably more expensive than here. But of course here we have full transparency, I can shop around.

e40 8y ago

I'm at a loss as to why the US is still dead set to have no meaningful health coverage. Because disinformation campaigns have pushed people to vote against their interests.

justaguyhere 8y ago

There was a story about an Indian guy - he flew all the way from California, spent two weeks in India, took a bunch of MRI etc scans and went back. The entire of the trip, including airfare, hotel, scans etc was less than the cost of a scan in the U.S. Not sure how much of this is true (and yes, I do realize I shouldn't be comparing US with a developing country like India, cost wise), but it is definitely believable.

liveoneggs 8y ago
medical tourism is a booming industry in places where US doctors tend to originate :)
- Balgair 8y ago
  Given Theil's penchant for SnowCrash style Rafts, I'm surprised he hasn't parked an old oil tanker in international waters just off LA, retrofitted it for outpatient procedures and a helipad.