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You're confused that people who (by definition) make poor life choices are unable to evaluate consequences and make better life choices?

by _ah 8y ago

turc1656 8y ago
Honestly, yes. I realize that response sounds stupid but we're talking about something pretty obvious. Like "hey, if we catch you selling drugs again you go to jail for the rest of your life." Why anyone would ever take that gamble is simply lost on me. I don't care how uneducated or unintelligent a person is - everyone who isn't very mentally handicapped can understand that. And they still do it. I just can't wrap my mind around it.
- KSteffensen 8y ago
  Poor impulse control. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedin_Multidisciplinary_Health_and_Development_Study https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedin_Multidisciplinary_He...
  - ozzmotik 8y ago
    i agree with the poor impulse control claim but beyond that, for people who feel disenfranchised by the system and as though they have no other qualities they can actually use to survive in society, at least wrt the concept of selling drugs, that is an extremely reliable way to make enough money in order to support your life and the pursuit of your desires. that being said, i do believe that anyone can improve their position in life if they stop allowing themselves to believe that they are completely limited by their societal status. however, as someone who struggles to integrate into society in any meaningful way and ultimately support myself, I do get how easy it is to convince yourself that there is no other choice other than what you currently have. it's a super toxic line of reasoning and antithetical to the pursuit of happiness as it were, but man its really easy to do. and as we all (likely) know, many humans tend to prefer to just do things the easy way and rely on what they know or are comfortable with
- diob 8y ago
  It's more that 3 strikes can happen all at once. The justice system isn't fair by a long shot. Hardly anyone is charged with a single crime, so usually the 3 strikes happen through a single instance.
  - philwelch 8y ago
    > It's more that 3 strikes can happen all at once. The justice system isn't fair by a long shot. Hardly anyone is charged with a single crime, so usually the 3 strikes happen through a single instance. Yeah, that's actually incredibly possible in our legal system, and it's incentivized by the plea bargaining system, because the more charges the prosecutor can pile on, the stronger her negotiating position. Suppose you rob a bank with a gun, the old-fashioned way. Clearly, that's at least one crime: armed robbery. Now, usually brandishing a weapon is a crime in itself, and if you're brandishing it at people, that's also assault with a deadly weapon, and if you're threatening people, that might qualify as terroristic threat. Arguably, the single act of "waving a gun around and demanding money from the bank teller" has double jeopardy protection and it should only count as one of these three crimes. But what if you point the gun at more than one bank teller? What if you point it at the customers and demand that they get on the floor? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. Suppose things escalate and you, for example, don't even shoot the gun, you just pistol-whip someone. That's definitely an additional crime. It's an additional crime for each person you pistol-whip, let alone shoot. Probably some sort of aggravated assault or assault and battery type thing, depending on the laws in your particular state. Let's imagine that during this bank robbery, someone dies. They don't even die of being pistol whipped. There's a little old lady at the bank who just wants to deposit her Social Security check, and here you come, screaming and yelling and pointing a gun in people's faces, and she dies of a heart attack. Was the heart attack caused by the stress of being in the middle of a bank robbery? Yes, and the medical examiner would rule the cause of death as "homicide". Which means, merely by virtue of robbing the bank in the first place, you are now guilty of felony murder. Now, let's suppose you didn't just walk in the front door, like an idiot, and you instead did something more creative like crashing through a window. Breaking the window is probably a type of vandalism or malicious mischief, so let's add that on too. Likewise, if you fire a warning shot into the ceiling, like in the movies: lots of property damage there (and, of course, strict liability for anything or anyone else that stray bullet happens to run into.) Let's talk about the gun. Is it an unregistered gun in a state that requires gun registration? Did you carry it concealed and loaded on your way into the bank without having a concealed carry permit? Did you buy a stolen gun from a fence instead of having an obvious paper trail at a legitimate gun dealer that has your name and ID on file? Probably a crime or two in there as well. The getaway is its own unending font of possible crimes. Let's suppose you get your bag of cash, jump in your car, and drive away. If at any point in this process you're being pursued by the police, this constitutes resisting arrest. You're likely committing reckless driving, too. Obviously if you run over a person that's vehicular assault and felony murder again, but depending on what else you run into, you could also be guilty of animal cruelty, mailbox vandalism (actually a federal offense), damaging government property, just plain normal vandalism, and so forth, not to mention all the trespassing and moving violations you're undeniably committing as well. Also, if you ever discussed this plan with anyone, there might be a case for conspiracy. It might not hold up in court or anything, but a clever prosecutor will pile this on anyway just to turn a witness against you or for cheap bargaining leverage.

You're confused that people who (by definition) make poor life choices are unable to evaluate consequences and make better life choices?

by _ah 8y ago

You're confused that people who (by definition) make poor life choices are unable to evaluate consequences and make better life choices?

turc1656 8y ago

Honestly, yes. I realize that response sounds stupid but we're talking about something pretty obvious. Like "hey, if we catch you selling drugs again you go to jail for the rest of your life." Why anyone would ever take that gamble is simply lost on me. I don't care how uneducated or unintelligent a person is - everyone who isn't very mentally handicapped can understand that. And they still do it. I just can't wrap my mind around it.

KSteffensen 8y ago
Poor impulse control. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedin_Multidisciplinary_Health_and_Development_Study https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedin_Multidisciplinary_He...
- ozzmotik 8y ago
  i agree with the poor impulse control claim but beyond that, for people who feel disenfranchised by the system and as though they have no other qualities they can actually use to survive in society, at least wrt the concept of selling drugs, that is an extremely reliable way to make enough money in order to support your life and the pursuit of your desires. that being said, i do believe that anyone can improve their position in life if they stop allowing themselves to believe that they are completely limited by their societal status. however, as someone who struggles to integrate into society in any meaningful way and ultimately support myself, I do get how easy it is to convince yourself that there is no other choice other than what you currently have. it's a super toxic line of reasoning and antithetical to the pursuit of happiness as it were, but man its really easy to do. and as we all (likely) know, many humans tend to prefer to just do things the easy way and rely on what they know or are comfortable with
diob 8y ago
It's more that 3 strikes can happen all at once. The justice system isn't fair by a long shot. Hardly anyone is charged with a single crime, so usually the 3 strikes happen through a single instance.
- philwelch 8y ago
  > It's more that 3 strikes can happen all at once. The justice system isn't fair by a long shot. Hardly anyone is charged with a single crime, so usually the 3 strikes happen through a single instance. Yeah, that's actually incredibly possible in our legal system, and it's incentivized by the plea bargaining system, because the more charges the prosecutor can pile on, the stronger her negotiating position. Suppose you rob a bank with a gun, the old-fashioned way. Clearly, that's at least one crime: armed robbery. Now, usually brandishing a weapon is a crime in itself, and if you're brandishing it at people, that's also assault with a deadly weapon, and if you're threatening people, that might qualify as terroristic threat. Arguably, the single act of "waving a gun around and demanding money from the bank teller" has double jeopardy protection and it should only count as one of these three crimes. But what if you point the gun at more than one bank teller? What if you point it at the customers and demand that they get on the floor? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. Suppose things escalate and you, for example, don't even shoot the gun, you just pistol-whip someone. That's definitely an additional crime. It's an additional crime for each person you pistol-whip, let alone shoot. Probably some sort of aggravated assault or assault and battery type thing, depending on the laws in your particular state. Let's imagine that during this bank robbery, someone dies. They don't even die of being pistol whipped. There's a little old lady at the bank who just wants to deposit her Social Security check, and here you come, screaming and yelling and pointing a gun in people's faces, and she dies of a heart attack. Was the heart attack caused by the stress of being in the middle of a bank robbery? Yes, and the medical examiner would rule the cause of death as "homicide". Which means, merely by virtue of robbing the bank in the first place, you are now guilty of felony murder. Now, let's suppose you didn't just walk in the front door, like an idiot, and you instead did something more creative like crashing through a window. Breaking the window is probably a type of vandalism or malicious mischief, so let's add that on too. Likewise, if you fire a warning shot into the ceiling, like in the movies: lots of property damage there (and, of course, strict liability for anything or anyone else that stray bullet happens to run into.) Let's talk about the gun. Is it an unregistered gun in a state that requires gun registration? Did you carry it concealed and loaded on your way into the bank without having a concealed carry permit? Did you buy a stolen gun from a fence instead of having an obvious paper trail at a legitimate gun dealer that has your name and ID on file? Probably a crime or two in there as well. The getaway is its own unending font of possible crimes. Let's suppose you get your bag of cash, jump in your car, and drive away. If at any point in this process you're being pursued by the police, this constitutes resisting arrest. You're likely committing reckless driving, too. Obviously if you run over a person that's vehicular assault and felony murder again, but depending on what else you run into, you could also be guilty of animal cruelty, mailbox vandalism (actually a federal offense), damaging government property, just plain normal vandalism, and so forth, not to mention all the trespassing and moving violations you're undeniably committing as well. Also, if you ever discussed this plan with anyone, there might be a case for conspiracy. It might not hold up in court or anything, but a clever prosecutor will pile this on anyway just to turn a witness against you or for cheap bargaining leverage.