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Just my personal take but as an adult who just quite smoking a few weeks ago the availability of vaps has been tremendously helpful. I feel night and day better

Just my personal take but as an adult who just quite smoking a few weeks ago the availability of vaps has been tremendously helpful. I feel night and day better in terms of health despite consuming probably similar levels of nicotine. And while I don't view nicotine (or vaporized VG, PG) as particularly harmful it probably should be reserved for those 18+. What doesn't seem to be helpful is that vaping comes in all sorts of flavors (beyond synthetic tobacco flavor)that would probably appeal to people minors (mango, cotton-candy, etc). In contrast any flavorings of those types in cigarettes was banned a decade ago (with the notable exception of menthol). > Currently, no flavors are banned from other tobacco products, although research suggests flavors may also make these products more enticing to youth and young adults. Data from FDA’s Population Assessment of Tobacco and Health found that nearly 80 percent of youth ages 12-17 and nearly 75 percent of young adults ages 18-25 who were current tobacco users in 2014 reported that the first tobacco product they ever used was flavored.25 Alternatively, FDA is aware of self-reported information suggesting that the availability of flavors in some noncombusted tobacco products such as e-cigarettes and other ENDS may help some adult users reduce cigarette use or switch to potentially less harmful products. https://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/ProductsIngredientsComponents/ucm2019416.htm https://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/ProductsIngredi...

stefan_ 8y ago
Nicotine is little different from caffeine. Either you ban both, none, or you decide your policy is arbitrary moral posturing supported by no evidence. Ultimately, there is little in the way of physical dependency; nicotine is as addicting as sugar and fat loaded burgers and fries, and the health risk to the population of those blow any risk from nicotine out of the water. In fact, the evidence probably shows we could promote the use of vaping instead of overeating on junk-food, and should ban minors from entering fast food places.
- solomatov 8y ago
  >Nicotine is little different from caffeine. Either you ban both, none, or you decide your policy is arbitrary moral posturing supported by no evidence. They are quite different in their mechanism of action. Caffeine works via Adenosine, Nicotine works via Nicotinic Acetylcholine receptors.
  - stefan_ 8y ago
    Yes, they are both nerve agents, harmless to humans beyond some nootropic effect. No physical dependency.
    - inscionent 8y ago
      > Nicotine on direct application in humans causes irritation and burning sensation in the mouth and throat, increased salivation, nausea, abdominal pain, vomiting and diarrhea.[17] Gastrointestinal effects are less severe but can occur even after cutaneous and respiratory exposure.[18] Predominant immediate effects as seen in animal studies and in humans consist of increase in pulse rate and blood pressure. Nicotine also causes an increase in plasma free fatty acids, hyperglycemia, and an increase in the level of catecholamines in the blood.[19,20] There is reduced coronary blood flow but an increased skeletal muscle blood flow.[20,22] The increased rate of respiration causes hypothermia, a hypercoagulable state, decreases skin temperature, and increases the blood viscosity. Nicotine is one of the most toxic of all poisons and has a rapid onset of action. Apart from local actions, the target organs are the peripheral and central nervous systems. In severe poisoning, there are tremors, prostration, cyanosis, dypnoea, convulsion, progression to collapse and coma. Even death may occur from paralysis of respiratory muscles and/or central respiratory failure with a LD50 in adults of around 30-60 mg of nicotine. In children the LD50 is around 10 mg. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/
      - stefan_ 8y ago
        You can also die from caffeine. What is your point, beyond "the dose makes the poison"?
        klodolph 8y ago
        The fact that a risk exists is irrelevant, and it was never the point. If you want to understand the risks associated with nicotine and caffeine, you measure them. There are a number of metrics we can use as a proxy for risk, like margin of exposure or margin of safety, but these give us an incomplete understanding of the risks. The problem with electronic cigarettes is that children are particularly prone to the following things: - Eating or drinking inappropriate things, - Eating or drinking things which are colorful or have a pleasant aroma, and - Being more sensitive to certain chemicals (e.g. nicotine) than adults. So if you told me, "Let's put nicotine in a mango-scented liquid and put it in reach of children," I think we should be alarmed. Likewise, when we took iron supplements and put them in the shape of colorful pills or animals with a sweet taste like candy, and then children started eating them and getting iron poisoning, we got concerned.
deleted 8y ago
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scythe 8y ago
As an adult, I like flavors. Flavors aren't addictive, nicotine is. As a teenager, I used to steal bottles from my parents' liquor cabinet and drink them neat. Needless to say they (with few exceptions) don't taste good this way. Kids use drugs (partially) because they want to play at being adults. Requiring the e-cig to taste bad isn't going to inhibit that at all. It is going to inconvenience a lot of law-abiding adults who enjoy flavored e-liquid. Stop trying to ruin my e-cig based on narratives and weak evidence.
013a 8y ago
This narrative that high schoolers are all about cotton candy and mangos, but when given menthol they find it disgusting, is absolutely hilarious and so clearly woven by old men in a government complex somewhere. Kids were smoking long before ecigs popped up, and they'll keep doing all sorts of drugs as long as they exist. Taste means practically nothing. But it sure does sell better to worried mothers.

stefan_ 8y ago

Nicotine is little different from caffeine. Either you ban both, none, or you decide your policy is arbitrary moral posturing supported by no evidence. Ultimately, there is little in the way of physical dependency; nicotine is as addicting as sugar and fat loaded burgers and fries, and the health risk to the population of those blow any risk from nicotine out of the water. In fact, the evidence probably shows we could promote the use of vaping instead of overeating on junk-food, and should ban minors from entering fast food places.

solomatov 8y ago
>Nicotine is little different from caffeine. Either you ban both, none, or you decide your policy is arbitrary moral posturing supported by no evidence. They are quite different in their mechanism of action. Caffeine works via Adenosine, Nicotine works via Nicotinic Acetylcholine receptors.
- stefan_ 8y ago
  Yes, they are both nerve agents, harmless to humans beyond some nootropic effect. No physical dependency.
  - inscionent 8y ago
    > Nicotine on direct application in humans causes irritation and burning sensation in the mouth and throat, increased salivation, nausea, abdominal pain, vomiting and diarrhea.[17] Gastrointestinal effects are less severe but can occur even after cutaneous and respiratory exposure.[18] Predominant immediate effects as seen in animal studies and in humans consist of increase in pulse rate and blood pressure. Nicotine also causes an increase in plasma free fatty acids, hyperglycemia, and an increase in the level of catecholamines in the blood.[19,20] There is reduced coronary blood flow but an increased skeletal muscle blood flow.[20,22] The increased rate of respiration causes hypothermia, a hypercoagulable state, decreases skin temperature, and increases the blood viscosity. Nicotine is one of the most toxic of all poisons and has a rapid onset of action. Apart from local actions, the target organs are the peripheral and central nervous systems. In severe poisoning, there are tremors, prostration, cyanosis, dypnoea, convulsion, progression to collapse and coma. Even death may occur from paralysis of respiratory muscles and/or central respiratory failure with a LD50 in adults of around 30-60 mg of nicotine. In children the LD50 is around 10 mg. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/
    - stefan_ 8y ago
      You can also die from caffeine. What is your point, beyond "the dose makes the poison"?
      - klodolph 8y ago
        The fact that a risk exists is irrelevant, and it was never the point. If you want to understand the risks associated with nicotine and caffeine, you measure them. There are a number of metrics we can use as a proxy for risk, like margin of exposure or margin of safety, but these give us an incomplete understanding of the risks. The problem with electronic cigarettes is that children are particularly prone to the following things: - Eating or drinking inappropriate things, - Eating or drinking things which are colorful or have a pleasant aroma, and - Being more sensitive to certain chemicals (e.g. nicotine) than adults. So if you told me, "Let's put nicotine in a mango-scented liquid and put it in reach of children," I think we should be alarmed. Likewise, when we took iron supplements and put them in the shape of colorful pills or animals with a sweet taste like candy, and then children started eating them and getting iron poisoning, we got concerned.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

scythe 8y ago

As an adult, I like flavors. Flavors aren't addictive, nicotine is. As a teenager, I used to steal bottles from my parents' liquor cabinet and drink them neat. Needless to say they (with few exceptions) don't taste good this way. Kids use drugs (partially) because they want to play at being adults. Requiring the e-cig to taste bad isn't going to inhibit that at all. It is going to inconvenience a lot of law-abiding adults who enjoy flavored e-liquid. Stop trying to ruin my e-cig based on narratives and weak evidence.

013a 8y ago

This narrative that high schoolers are all about cotton candy and mangos, but when given menthol they find it disgusting, is absolutely hilarious and so clearly woven by old men in a government complex somewhere. Kids were smoking long before ecigs popped up, and they'll keep doing all sorts of drugs as long as they exist. Taste means practically nothing. But it sure does sell better to worried mothers.