5 ms·

>He said the U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion in fighting wars over the past 30 years rather than investing in infrastructure at home. The US spent $14 trilli

>He said the U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion in fighting wars over the past 30 years rather than investing in infrastructure at home. The US spent $14 trillion upholding a world order of free trade and international maritime law which directly benefited China and was responsible for its own export based growth over the last 30 years. We're seeing that global order realign now, with things like Brexit and Trump, but I'm not sure we want a world without the US spending this kind of money. Would it be a better if China controlled all navigation within the South China Sea? Why don't we just let Putin roll over the Baltics? That's the real reasoning behind US defense spending. Sure you can point to Iraq and Afghanistan line items, but the vast majority of recurring spending is on strategic naval and air forces to pursue long term objectives like this.

mattnewton 8y ago
I think we need a citation on money being the cost to keeping those shipping lanes open. We already spend much more than China and Russia combined, it’s not easy to imagine that could be reduced and we could still keep those countries in check. My understanding was the major draws were unending wars and country building projects in the midddle east, with large military spending projects the military didn’t ask for but senators bought them anyways as a distant second.
- aphextron 8y ago
  >We already spend much more than China and Russia combined, it’s not easy to imagine that could be reduced and we could still keep those countries in check Unfortunately warfare doesn't work like an optimization algorithm. People are irrational, lack perfect information, and are susceptible to psychological manipulation. You cannot simply have a force two or three times larger than the enemy. Maintaining peace requires an overwhelming order of magnitude in force which ensures no one will ever be challenged. That's the entire basis of Pax Americana. As far as the budget, all that info is openly available. But the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan have cost about $1.3 trillion, or two years of the total defense budget. The vast majority of recurring military spending is salaries, VA benefits, R&D, and maintaining/upgrading the navy and air force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_...
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> US spent $14 trillion upholding a world order of free trade and international maritime law I am a huge supporter of the U.S. Navy's freedom of navigation duties. It's expensive, and it's worth it. But carpet bombing Baghdad does nothing for our trade routes.
- aphextron 8y ago
  >I am a huge supporter of the U.S. Navy's freedom of navigation duties. It's expensive, and it's worth it. But carpet bombing Baghdad does nothing for our trade routes. Every reasonable person thinks Iraq was a mistake in hindsight. Of course it was. But that does not negate the other 85% of all US defense spending which has been a shield against tyranny for the vast majority of humanity. Our support of NATO is the only reason eastern Europe is still independent. Our defense of South Korea is the only reason Seoul still exists. Yes there have been mistakes made with having this level of intervention in the world. But to give in to this kind of whataboutism rhetoric that sees the US as an evil empire, in a world full of Russias and Chinas, is just insanity.
  - Redoubts 8y ago
    >But that does not negate the other 85% If 15% of military spending was such a wild blunder, what’s makes you so sure the remaining 85% is solid spending?

mattnewton 8y ago

I think we need a citation on money being the cost to keeping those shipping lanes open. We already spend much more than China and Russia combined, it’s not easy to imagine that could be reduced and we could still keep those countries in check. My understanding was the major draws were unending wars and country building projects in the midddle east, with large military spending projects the military didn’t ask for but senators bought them anyways as a distant second.

aphextron 8y ago
>We already spend much more than China and Russia combined, it’s not easy to imagine that could be reduced and we could still keep those countries in check Unfortunately warfare doesn't work like an optimization algorithm. People are irrational, lack perfect information, and are susceptible to psychological manipulation. You cannot simply have a force two or three times larger than the enemy. Maintaining peace requires an overwhelming order of magnitude in force which ensures no one will ever be challenged. That's the entire basis of Pax Americana. As far as the budget, all that info is openly available. But the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan have cost about $1.3 trillion, or two years of the total defense budget. The vast majority of recurring military spending is salaries, VA benefits, R&D, and maintaining/upgrading the navy and air force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_...

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> US spent $14 trillion upholding a world order of free trade and international maritime law I am a huge supporter of the U.S. Navy's freedom of navigation duties. It's expensive, and it's worth it. But carpet bombing Baghdad does nothing for our trade routes.

aphextron 8y ago
>I am a huge supporter of the U.S. Navy's freedom of navigation duties. It's expensive, and it's worth it. But carpet bombing Baghdad does nothing for our trade routes. Every reasonable person thinks Iraq was a mistake in hindsight. Of course it was. But that does not negate the other 85% of all US defense spending which has been a shield against tyranny for the vast majority of humanity. Our support of NATO is the only reason eastern Europe is still independent. Our defense of South Korea is the only reason Seoul still exists. Yes there have been mistakes made with having this level of intervention in the world. But to give in to this kind of whataboutism rhetoric that sees the US as an evil empire, in a world full of Russias and Chinas, is just insanity.
- Redoubts 8y ago
  >But that does not negate the other 85% If 15% of military spending was such a wild blunder, what’s makes you so sure the remaining 85% is solid spending?