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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie "A lie is a statement used intentionally for the purpose of deception" I don't think you
by cmiller1 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie
"A lie is a statement used intentionally for the purpose of deception"
I don't think you can prove it was a lie.
- vkou 8y agoSince we don't have a mind-reading machine, by that logic, we can conclude that no statement can be proven to be a lie. After all, how can we know what an alleged liar is really thinking?
- skybrian 8y agoYou exaggerate, but actually, this is a good reason to avoid accusing people of lying unless you understand the situation pretty well. Honest mistakes do happen a lot.
- vkou 8y agoIt doesn't matter if the individual people at MailChimp were liars. What matters is that the institution as a whole - the way their policies and procedures come together - lied. The institution certainly knows of it's capabilities. It deliberately chose to not tell that to it's CS reps, because of a multitude of reasons, that come down to 'It makes our/their jobs easier.' My ISP, for example, lies to me every time I make a call to customer service. Is the front-line CS rep lying to me? No. But his employer is, by making him tell me a pile of bullshit about why my Internet is busted - again.
- diminoten 8y ago"The word lie has lost all meaning" "It doesn't matter if they're liars" C'mon, man.
- skybrian 8y agoWell, but that's anthropomorphizing. Institutions don't really know things, people do. Getting stuff out of one person's head to all the people that could use it actually takes a lot of effort. (Look at how terrible medical record systems are.)
- coding123 8y agoLies can be proven by finding evidence someone did know something when they say the opposite.
- vkou 8y agoAnd in this case, we have iron-clad evidence that MailChimp, as an organization, with 100% certainty, knew that the customer's data was recoverable.
- LanceH 8y agoThe company is set up to deliver a lie, even if the last person telling it is doing so unintentionally.
- baldfat 8y agoMailchip seems to be in the wrong, but ignorance isn't the same as a lie. I bet you people just assume or their manager doesn't know either. Why was my account suspended - https://mailchimp.com/help/why-accounts-get-suspended/ https://mailchimp.com/help/why-accounts-get-suspended/
- brewdad 8y agoThe first level support person isn't lying if he/she doesn't truly know whether the data is recoverable. A manager higher up, who approved the script and knows better, is lying however. To the end user it makes no difference who the liar is, only the the lie is being told.
- mirimir 8y agoBut that end with: > If we suspended your account, we'll contact you as soon as possible to let you know why, and to give you details on how to fix the situation. And that's clearly a lie, based on OP's experience, and those of other commenters.
- ergothus 8y agoThat's...fascinating. While we have lots of corporate personhood, I normally disregard blaming specific actions on a company because at the end of the day a person makes the call. But here you've pointed out that a company, operating as a collection of people, can "act" in ways that may be unintentional or may be deliberate, but are hard to pin down to a specific person. Definitely worth considering in more depth, thanks for the perspective.
- pavel_lishin 8y agoCharles Stross has posited that we've invented Artificial Intelligence with the advent of corporations.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]