4 ms·

This is a good move. With Java under Oracle's control, Microsoft has a lot to gain by embracing open source licensing.

by gphil 16y ago

aphexairlines 16y ago
Does the Apache license include patent licensing? Java is open source too.
- equark 16y ago
  Yes.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - ntoshev 16y ago
    Remember this only applies to the F# compiler and not to the .Net runtime which you need to run the compiled code. Microsoft is friendly with Mono currently, but so was Sun with Android.
- nailer 16y ago
  > Java is open source too. I don't think that's correct. AFAIK there's no certified OSS Java. And if it isn't certified, it can't be called Java. It would be correct to say there's Open Source 'Java compatible' environments.
  - riffraff 16y ago
    openjdk is not certified java? I know harmony did not get a tck but it seems unlikely oracle is not letting their own developers use it.
    - nailer 16y ago
      I'm not sure to be honest. The actual JRE based on OpenJDK has additions to the code according to http://openjdk.java.net http://openjdk.java.net. I couldn't find anything called 'Java' that wasn't this code. The OpenJDK FAQ is of course 404ing. Thanks Oracle.
- Tamerlin 16y ago
  Only OpenJDK is open source. Other than that, Java is closed -- and to certify a Java implementation, you have to pay a license fee, which not the case for .NET. IMO were it not for the Oracle acquisition, it would be a matter of time until Java were fully open sourced, but with Oracle in charge now I suspect that it's not going to happen.
  - SoundLogic 16y ago
    Java is closed for commercial use under the terms of the GNU - did anyone notice how the press picked up on the story then it completely vanished from the news? ...guessing a gag order was issued
kamechan 16y ago
agreed. excellent move on their part. not to mention that i'm continually impressed by what the folks at MSR put out. some smart folks, those ones. i've always found it odd that the environment there seems so contrary to that in redmond. i guess that's marketing for you. now if they'd only do the same for the .net framework. i'm uncertain about java's future myself as are many of my friends who have invested a lot in their companies' solutions thinking that java would remain fairly OSS and are now scratching their heads. i guess MS sells enough server and DB licences that my hopes that they'll do the same for the rest of the .net framework will remain just that. it'd be nice if they at least sanctioned the mono folks and gave them a roadmap. living under the threat that microsoft could probably swoop in and put an end to their fun doesn't make me want to use mono. that said, i generally like the .net framework (and specifically c#) more than the alternatives in the managed/oop realm. but i'm out of the loop on the status of mono, as i rarely develop in managed/oop code these days. has there been any official acknowledgment/condoning of the mono project by MS?
- aaronbrethorst 16y ago
  Miguel de Icaza has spoken at past MIX conferences fwiw.
  - kamechan 16y ago
    worth a bit, actually. a letter from ballmer (or gates) saying, "dude, nice work" would be even better. :D
    - kamechan 16y ago
      on this subject, just went watch some netflix on my maverick meerkat install (on a macbook) and clicking on "install silverlight" on a microsoft site redirected me to the "mono moonlight" project. if that's not acceptance, i don't know what is. EDIT: sadly, netflix won't let me watch movies without win or mac (silverlight plugin notwithstanding).
      - ntoshev 16y ago
ntoshev 16y ago
To run F# you need .Net runtime, which is as closed as it can be. It's like Sun open sourcing the Java compiler but not the JVM.
- MichaelGG 16y ago
  I guess you haven't heard of http://mono-project.com http://mono-project.com. The F# team tries to ensure it works well on Mono, and the same for the Mono team. On top of that, the specifications for the CLR are standardized.
  - face 16y ago
    Kind of like how I cannot watch netflix on my linux machine, despite mono and moonlight?
    - tedunangst 16y ago
      I don't think you have presented convincing evidence that the root cause of that is not "there are bugs in mono".
    - pufuwozu 16y ago
      The DRM technology is the only part of Silverlight that isn't licensed to Moonlight.

This is a good move. With Java under Oracle's control, Microsoft has a lot to gain by embracing open source licensing.

by gphil 16y ago

This is a good move. With Java under Oracle's control, Microsoft has a lot to gain by embracing open source licensing.

aphexairlines 16y ago

Does the Apache license include patent licensing? Java is open source too.

equark 16y ago
Yes.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- ntoshev 16y ago
  Remember this only applies to the F# compiler and not to the .Net runtime which you need to run the compiled code. Microsoft is friendly with Mono currently, but so was Sun with Android.
nailer 16y ago
> Java is open source too. I don't think that's correct. AFAIK there's no certified OSS Java. And if it isn't certified, it can't be called Java. It would be correct to say there's Open Source 'Java compatible' environments.
- riffraff 16y ago
  openjdk is not certified java? I know harmony did not get a tck but it seems unlikely oracle is not letting their own developers use it.
  - nailer 16y ago
    I'm not sure to be honest. The actual JRE based on OpenJDK has additions to the code according to http://openjdk.java.net http://openjdk.java.net. I couldn't find anything called 'Java' that wasn't this code. The OpenJDK FAQ is of course 404ing. Thanks Oracle.
Tamerlin 16y ago
Only OpenJDK is open source. Other than that, Java is closed -- and to certify a Java implementation, you have to pay a license fee, which not the case for .NET. IMO were it not for the Oracle acquisition, it would be a matter of time until Java were fully open sourced, but with Oracle in charge now I suspect that it's not going to happen.
- SoundLogic 16y ago
  Java is closed for commercial use under the terms of the GNU - did anyone notice how the press picked up on the story then it completely vanished from the news? ...guessing a gag order was issued

kamechan 16y ago

agreed. excellent move on their part. not to mention that i'm continually impressed by what the folks at MSR put out. some smart folks, those ones. i've always found it odd that the environment there seems so contrary to that in redmond. i guess that's marketing for you. now if they'd only do the same for the .net framework. i'm uncertain about java's future myself as are many of my friends who have invested a lot in their companies' solutions thinking that java would remain fairly OSS and are now scratching their heads. i guess MS sells enough server and DB licences that my hopes that they'll do the same for the rest of the .net framework will remain just that. it'd be nice if they at least sanctioned the mono folks and gave them a roadmap. living under the threat that microsoft could probably swoop in and put an end to their fun doesn't make me want to use mono. that said, i generally like the .net framework (and specifically c#) more than the alternatives in the managed/oop realm. but i'm out of the loop on the status of mono, as i rarely develop in managed/oop code these days. has there been any official acknowledgment/condoning of the mono project by MS?

aaronbrethorst 16y ago
Miguel de Icaza has spoken at past MIX conferences fwiw.
- kamechan 16y ago
  worth a bit, actually. a letter from ballmer (or gates) saying, "dude, nice work" would be even better. :D
  - kamechan 16y ago
    on this subject, just went watch some netflix on my maverick meerkat install (on a macbook) and clicking on "install silverlight" on a microsoft site redirected me to the "mono moonlight" project. if that's not acceptance, i don't know what is. EDIT: sadly, netflix won't let me watch movies without win or mac (silverlight plugin notwithstanding).
    - ntoshev 16y ago

ntoshev 16y ago

To run F# you need .Net runtime, which is as closed as it can be. It's like Sun open sourcing the Java compiler but not the JVM.

MichaelGG 16y ago
I guess you haven't heard of http://mono-project.com http://mono-project.com. The F# team tries to ensure it works well on Mono, and the same for the Mono team. On top of that, the specifications for the CLR are standardized.
- face 16y ago
  Kind of like how I cannot watch netflix on my linux machine, despite mono and moonlight?
  - tedunangst 16y ago
    I don't think you have presented convincing evidence that the root cause of that is not "there are bugs in mono".
  - pufuwozu 16y ago
    The DRM technology is the only part of Silverlight that isn't licensed to Moonlight.