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It is still a lie. Also keep in mind the perspective and context that the end user has no way of knowing. And even if the data can be recovered in an unoffici
by tjoff 8y ago
It is still a lie.
Also keep in mind the perspective and context that the end user has no way of knowing.
And even if the data can be recovered in an unofficial manner whether they will actually bother is highly unlikely if they care as little as they most obviously do.
So, as a user it is a pretty safe bet to just assume it is gone (but do keep poking).
- Spivak 8y agoIt's a lie that organizations have backups? "Your data has been deleted" pretty much has always meant that it was deleted from the live servers and that the deletion will propagate through backups depending on the orgs retention policy/requirements.
- detaro 8y agoWe don't know the exact messages. If the poster asked for a copy of his data and was told it was deleted, then yes, that was a lie (although possibly the person sending the message genuinely might not have known better, which puts the fault more nebulously at "the company"). If they asked why their account was gone and the response said "all data has been deleted" without offering a copy of it, it's just bad service. (Although given privacy regulations, it's a bad sign if a support agent can't give a precise answer about data stored or at least know not to make unchecked claims about it)
- dhimes 8y ago"Your data has been deleted" pretty much has always meant To whom? My mother? Nope- she thinks it's gone. So yeah- it's a lie, and you only catch it if you know better. "Yes Dad I did my homework" has pretty much always meant that he hasn't started it yet. No, it's a lie and the organization knows it. They are responsible for training their CS folks.
- Spivak 8y agoIf I turn on Windows Backup on my Mom's laptop and she right clicks a file and selects "Delete" is the expected behavior that it be deleted in every backup as well?
- AsyncAwait 8y agoIf she doesn't know the backup's been set up, in her mind, yes.
- dkonofalski 8y agoAre you suggesting that the delete command shouldn't be trusted because there might be a backup of the file somewhere? You people are throwing around the word "lie" very loosely here...
- AsyncAwait 8y ago> Are you suggesting that the delete command shouldn't be trusted because there might be a backup of the file somewhere? No, the exact opposite in fact. Am saying that if you weren't told there's a backup, you'll not think there's one and treat the data as completely deleted, even if they really aren't.
- icebraining 8y agoWindows doesn't tell your Mom that her data has been wiped, just that a particular file has been deleted.
- amingilani 8y agoMailChimp, the organization, first stated that all data was completely wiped, and when threatened, promptly produced the previously wiped data. MailChimp, as an organization, lied. It doesn't matter if the support agent didn't have the capabilities or not, that's an internal thing. The organization knows that they have the data, but they trained their staff to reply that it was destroyed. That's a lie. Not an untrue statement, but a deliberate lie.
- kemiller2002 8y ago>>"Your data has been deleted" pretty much has always meant that it was deleted from the live servers and that the deletion will propagate through backups depending on the orgs retention policy/requirements. No it doesn't. Deleted most places means deleted and gone forever. There are a number of legal requirements (in the U.S.) at least when dealing with certain government organizations, and many non ones as well surrounding this. Think of it this way, a customer comes and says, there is sensitive information on your server, and since we no longer want to do business with you, you are now required to delete it. Normally there is an end date to allow the backups to be purged through propagation etc., but at the end, when they say it's deleted, it means deleted from everywhere. Sometimes this also means completely wiping drives so there is absolutely no trace of it left.
- stefan_ 8y agoEither the data is deleted or it's not. If I send you a GDPR request, you reply "it's all deleted" then at a later date, data magically appears, that's an obvious per se violation.
- cmiller1 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie "A lie is a statement used intentionally for the purpose of deception" I don't think you can prove it was a lie.
- vkou 8y agoSince we don't have a mind-reading machine, by that logic, we can conclude that no statement can be proven to be a lie. After all, how can we know what an alleged liar is really thinking?
- skybrian 8y agoYou exaggerate, but actually, this is a good reason to avoid accusing people of lying unless you understand the situation pretty well. Honest mistakes do happen a lot.
- vkou 8y agoIt doesn't matter if the individual people at MailChimp were liars. What matters is that the institution as a whole - the way their policies and procedures come together - lied. The institution certainly knows of it's capabilities. It deliberately chose to not tell that to it's CS reps, because of a multitude of reasons, that come down to 'It makes our/their jobs easier.' My ISP, for example, lies to me every time I make a call to customer service. Is the front-line CS rep lying to me? No. But his employer is, by making him tell me a pile of bullshit about why my Internet is busted - again.
- diminoten 8y ago"The word lie has lost all meaning" "It doesn't matter if they're liars" C'mon, man.
- skybrian 8y agoWell, but that's anthropomorphizing. Institutions don't really know things, people do. Getting stuff out of one person's head to all the people that could use it actually takes a lot of effort. (Look at how terrible medical record systems are.)