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You're comparing a difficult but real situation with a perfect but hypothetical one. Things always are wonderful when they're research projects that don't need

by Luc 8y ago

You're comparing a difficult but real situation with a perfect but hypothetical one. Things always are wonderful when they're research projects that don't need to conform to real-world limitations.

TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
New York subway system is probably the best we have in the US, but it's laughably bad when compared to the top players. I've traveled to Japan and during my trips I've been amazed by their train system. It was always on time and it ran incredibly frequently, so missing a train usually wasn't a big deal. Although I haven't visited there, I've also heard incredibly positive things about China's trains. My point here is that there's still a lot of room for improvement, even if you limit yourself to trains. It doesn't seem like such a stretch to extend it a bit further to this new emerging system.
dwild 8y ago
> difficult but real situation His first argument is that it's currently too expensive to have any innovation. This tunnel cost 10 millions $. Sure it's usage is still hypothetical, but you can't say this won't be much more accessible to innovate. I'm in Montreal, our subway barely changed in the past 30 years. I was lucky, I was affected by one of the only change they did in theses 30 years, 3 more stations on an already completely full line. That came with a 745m$ price for 3 stations that sure allowed people further to take it, but it didn't increase at all the actual capacity. It's hard for any of our administration to even consider any major expansion because of that. If making smaller projects now make sense, maybe we will see more innovation in the technology, in how they are handled, etc...
- ABCLAW 8y ago
  Maybe I can provide a bit more context re: Montreal. Montreal's metro throughput is not gated by the tunnel capacity. It is gated by the amount of trains in operation. Adding additional cars on the 'already full line' would increase the line's capacity. Neither the orange nor the green line are close to full. The issue with the orange line extension isn't that the lines are full. It's that 1) subway costs are heavily subsidized at the municipal and provicial level, 2) they were extended to Laval which funds the STL, not the STM, and 3) there was no revenue or cost sharing agreement between Laval and Montreal to subsidize the STM in proportion to the burden placed on the STM by Laval riders. This issue with cross-subsidization also lies at the core of the municipal agglomeration which occurred in Quebec metropolitan regions. Montreal won't consider additional subway expansion not because of financial and infrastructure cost reasons, but because of political ones, much in the same way that internal negotiations regarding the dual super-hospital projects were intentionally sabotaged for political reasons.
jillesvangurp 8y ago
Not so hypothetical now that they delivered the first tunnel. I'm guessing that might help him land a few more deals for more tunnels. My understanding is they already closed a few such deals.
jfoster 8y ago
It's funny. About 15 years ago, people would say the same about electric vehicles. You know the guy who made those work in appealing ways? Same guy.

by Luc 8y ago

You're comparing a difficult but real situation with a perfect but hypothetical one. Things always are wonderful when they're research projects that don't need to conform to real-world limitations.

TheAceOfHearts 8y ago

New York subway system is probably the best we have in the US, but it's laughably bad when compared to the top players. I've traveled to Japan and during my trips I've been amazed by their train system. It was always on time and it ran incredibly frequently, so missing a train usually wasn't a big deal. Although I haven't visited there, I've also heard incredibly positive things about China's trains. My point here is that there's still a lot of room for improvement, even if you limit yourself to trains. It doesn't seem like such a stretch to extend it a bit further to this new emerging system.

dwild 8y ago

> difficult but real situation His first argument is that it's currently too expensive to have any innovation. This tunnel cost 10 millions $. Sure it's usage is still hypothetical, but you can't say this won't be much more accessible to innovate. I'm in Montreal, our subway barely changed in the past 30 years. I was lucky, I was affected by one of the only change they did in theses 30 years, 3 more stations on an already completely full line. That came with a 745m$ price for 3 stations that sure allowed people further to take it, but it didn't increase at all the actual capacity. It's hard for any of our administration to even consider any major expansion because of that. If making smaller projects now make sense, maybe we will see more innovation in the technology, in how they are handled, etc...

ABCLAW 8y ago
Maybe I can provide a bit more context re: Montreal. Montreal's metro throughput is not gated by the tunnel capacity. It is gated by the amount of trains in operation. Adding additional cars on the 'already full line' would increase the line's capacity. Neither the orange nor the green line are close to full. The issue with the orange line extension isn't that the lines are full. It's that 1) subway costs are heavily subsidized at the municipal and provicial level, 2) they were extended to Laval which funds the STL, not the STM, and 3) there was no revenue or cost sharing agreement between Laval and Montreal to subsidize the STM in proportion to the burden placed on the STM by Laval riders. This issue with cross-subsidization also lies at the core of the municipal agglomeration which occurred in Quebec metropolitan regions. Montreal won't consider additional subway expansion not because of financial and infrastructure cost reasons, but because of political ones, much in the same way that internal negotiations regarding the dual super-hospital projects were intentionally sabotaged for political reasons.

jillesvangurp 8y ago

Not so hypothetical now that they delivered the first tunnel. I'm guessing that might help him land a few more deals for more tunnels. My understanding is they already closed a few such deals.

jfoster 8y ago

It's funny. About 15 years ago, people would say the same about electric vehicles. You know the guy who made those work in appealing ways? Same guy.