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It seems to me that no matter what happens two classes of users are going to be created: those that can pay for security and those that cannot. Ultimately Apple

It seems to me that no matter what happens two classes of users are going to be created: those that can pay for security and those that cannot. Ultimately Apple's pricing means all their users are first class - hence security as a bread-and-butter feature on their platforms. In MSFT's case they're going to have low and high cost consumers, so they segment those users into the two relevant classes. None of this is good, for anybody involved. IT security is like vaccines, it only works if everybody's got them. This one of my biggest issues with the current "ads let us have free software" defense of the advertising craze. Ads let us segregate users based on what features they can afford not to have, and unfortunately for most laypeople it's security and privacy that's on the chopping block. What a mess. Typed from my iPad Pro.

eertami 8y ago
> Ultimately Apple's pricing means all their users are first class - hence security Yeah... Good luck running the latest version of iOS on an older iPhone. (Many are still have a 5/6 and you really don't want to update those if you value a reasonable experience and latency.)
- geocar 8y ago
  I have a couple Android devices and I can't get them to update at all. I'm sure there's some kind of solution, but my time is really valuable to me: If all I have to do is spend £1k every four years (£20 a month) to not worry about this, it's a done deal.
- gruturo 8y ago
  You do realize you're attacking the _one_ company which supports their phone for the longest period, do you? IOS 12 can be installed on the 5S, which is the oldest 64 bit phone. It was launched in 2013.
- kemayo 8y ago
  iOS 12 runs on everything through the 5S, and notably improved performance over iOS 10/11 on the same devices. [1] is a bunch of benchmarks from back in the beta period. My kid has it on a 6, and it's legitimately good performance there. Good luck getting the latest Android onto a 5 year old handset without jumping through some non-trivial hoops. [1]: http://www.iphonehacks.com/2018/09/ios-12-performance-improvements-tested-iphone-5s-6-ipad-mini-2.html http://www.iphonehacks.com/2018/09/ios-12-performance-improv...
  - eertami 8y ago
    I'm not speaking hypothetically, but from experience. I have a 4 year old 200gbp Android phone running Pie, took 10 minutes. I also have an iPhone 8, this is an Ok phone but is a worse experience than the 4 year old Android phone. Despite the cost being much higher, the screen is worse quality, for instance. My partner has a 6 and it is remarkably slower than both. To the point where you sometimes just want to give up on whatever you were trying to do while waiting for a map or Spotify to load. Maybe your experience is different to ours, but I'm only reporting what I see from using all 3.
    - Godel_unicode 8y ago
      Which cheapo Android has a better screen than an iPhone 8??
      - eertami 8y ago
        OnePlus X specifically, but pretty much any that has a decent AMOLED.
      - Multicomp 8y ago
        At the risk of wading into the iPhone vs Android battle...: iPhone 8 vs Nexus 6 from 2014, back when Google marketed that series as reasonable Dev devices, not necessarily flagships. 326 ppi vs 493 ppi 750 x 1334 pixels vs 1440 x 2560 pixels IPS LCD vs AMOLED Somewhere there is a tongue in cheek meme comparing a sister phone, the Nexus 4, from 2012 against a 2016(?) iPhone and it's quite interesting how many features the Android phones had and were mildly credited for that when copied to iPhone were /world changers!!1/ Granted, Android phone manufacturers have wised up and besides things like the Nokia 6.1 you can't really get a good mid-range Android phone any more... it's mostly clustered around either the humble Moto E or the Note 9 price points.
        tracker1 8y ago
        I know my G1 had online contact syncing and updates while the iPhone still required a USB adapter.
- neotek 8y ago
  >Yeah... Good luck running the latest version of iOS on an older iPhone. (Many are still have a 5/6 and you really don't want to update those if you value a reasonable experience and latency.) Spoken like someone who's never actually used a 5 or 6 running iOS 12.
  - eertami 8y ago
    Nope I speak from experience, we have a 6 with iOS 12. Also have an 8, which admittedly is an ok phone if horrendously overpriced but work paid for it so I can't complain.
geocar 8y ago
> unfortunately for most laypeople it's security and privacy that's on the chopping block. I think this is why we need legislation: The free market obviously can't sort this out to peoples' benefit. I have a couple Android devices I can't figure out how to update, so I'm afraid to use them for anything serious. If the author isn't responsible for writing crappy code, and I can't fix it, then where's my lemon law?
- zaksoup 8y ago
  I agree, but have one nitpick - it's not that the free market can't sort this out, but that this is exactly the solution the free market is set up to organically create. Can't afford the tech? Sell your identity to marketers! That's all free market and I don't think we give the "free market" (scare quotes because we're so far from that in actuality it's painful) enough credit for creating these exact problems.
- haolez 8y ago
  It is not a better solution to take away the freedom of people who are willing to sell their privacy. For some, it’s the only way to afford a computer.

eertami 8y ago

> Ultimately Apple's pricing means all their users are first class - hence security Yeah... Good luck running the latest version of iOS on an older iPhone. (Many are still have a 5/6 and you really don't want to update those if you value a reasonable experience and latency.)

geocar 8y ago
I have a couple Android devices and I can't get them to update at all. I'm sure there's some kind of solution, but my time is really valuable to me: If all I have to do is spend £1k every four years (£20 a month) to not worry about this, it's a done deal.
gruturo 8y ago
You do realize you're attacking the _one_ company which supports their phone for the longest period, do you? IOS 12 can be installed on the 5S, which is the oldest 64 bit phone. It was launched in 2013.
kemayo 8y ago
iOS 12 runs on everything through the 5S, and notably improved performance over iOS 10/11 on the same devices. [1] is a bunch of benchmarks from back in the beta period. My kid has it on a 6, and it's legitimately good performance there. Good luck getting the latest Android onto a 5 year old handset without jumping through some non-trivial hoops. [1]: http://www.iphonehacks.com/2018/09/ios-12-performance-improvements-tested-iphone-5s-6-ipad-mini-2.html http://www.iphonehacks.com/2018/09/ios-12-performance-improv...
- eertami 8y ago
  I'm not speaking hypothetically, but from experience. I have a 4 year old 200gbp Android phone running Pie, took 10 minutes. I also have an iPhone 8, this is an Ok phone but is a worse experience than the 4 year old Android phone. Despite the cost being much higher, the screen is worse quality, for instance. My partner has a 6 and it is remarkably slower than both. To the point where you sometimes just want to give up on whatever you were trying to do while waiting for a map or Spotify to load. Maybe your experience is different to ours, but I'm only reporting what I see from using all 3.
  - Godel_unicode 8y ago
    Which cheapo Android has a better screen than an iPhone 8??
    - eertami 8y ago
      OnePlus X specifically, but pretty much any that has a decent AMOLED.
    - Multicomp 8y ago
      At the risk of wading into the iPhone vs Android battle...: iPhone 8 vs Nexus 6 from 2014, back when Google marketed that series as reasonable Dev devices, not necessarily flagships. 326 ppi vs 493 ppi 750 x 1334 pixels vs 1440 x 2560 pixels IPS LCD vs AMOLED Somewhere there is a tongue in cheek meme comparing a sister phone, the Nexus 4, from 2012 against a 2016(?) iPhone and it's quite interesting how many features the Android phones had and were mildly credited for that when copied to iPhone were /world changers!!1/ Granted, Android phone manufacturers have wised up and besides things like the Nokia 6.1 you can't really get a good mid-range Android phone any more... it's mostly clustered around either the humble Moto E or the Note 9 price points.
      - tracker1 8y ago
        I know my G1 had online contact syncing and updates while the iPhone still required a USB adapter.
neotek 8y ago
>Yeah... Good luck running the latest version of iOS on an older iPhone. (Many are still have a 5/6 and you really don't want to update those if you value a reasonable experience and latency.) Spoken like someone who's never actually used a 5 or 6 running iOS 12.
- eertami 8y ago
  Nope I speak from experience, we have a 6 with iOS 12. Also have an 8, which admittedly is an ok phone if horrendously overpriced but work paid for it so I can't complain.

geocar 8y ago

> unfortunately for most laypeople it's security and privacy that's on the chopping block. I think this is why we need legislation: The free market obviously can't sort this out to peoples' benefit. I have a couple Android devices I can't figure out how to update, so I'm afraid to use them for anything serious. If the author isn't responsible for writing crappy code, and I can't fix it, then where's my lemon law?

zaksoup 8y ago
I agree, but have one nitpick - it's not that the free market can't sort this out, but that this is exactly the solution the free market is set up to organically create. Can't afford the tech? Sell your identity to marketers! That's all free market and I don't think we give the "free market" (scare quotes because we're so far from that in actuality it's painful) enough credit for creating these exact problems.
haolez 8y ago
It is not a better solution to take away the freedom of people who are willing to sell their privacy. For some, it’s the only way to afford a computer.