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Question for the most of the people who read this who will still use fb/instagram/messenger all day, or even at all: is there something so bad that fb could do

Question for the most of the people who read this who will still use fb/instagram/messenger all day, or even at all: is there something so bad that fb could do that would get you to stop? If so, what is it? Where is your red line? Or absent an alternative with fb's network effects, will you keep using their products regardless of the unseen costs you rack up?

wolco 8y ago
Start charging money.
- shard972 8y ago
  That would be a good thing? In all seriousness, if companies actually had to pay for your data, suddenly their business models would flip and you would find that we would go from being the products to being the customers.
logicchains 8y ago
>will you keep using their products regardless of the unseen costs you rack up? Honest answer: my purchasing/social network data is worth extremely little to me, so I don't care who has it. And I don't have a problem with advertising; I prefer to allocate responsibility to individuals for their own decisions, so if somebody is influenced by an advertisement, if anybody is to be faulted then it's themselves, not the advertisement/advertiser.
crocodiletears 8y ago
I can't think of any concrete red-line that Facebook could cross. I've never been a techno-utopian, and the Snowden leaks were the catalyst that drove me to learn programming. I recall being in my early teens, when I went to create my (first) Facebook account. I mentioned it to my dad. He explicitly told me that whatever I did on Facebook would go to their servers, that whatever reached their servers was theirs, and that they would do whatever they wanted with that data regardless of whether you agreed to it or not. The whole reason I gave up and made an account was because my friends had already given the app their contact list, and the service already had my phone number. From day one I've treated online services like amoral, dangerous animals, and so far nothing these organizations have done has especially shocked me, though I have been impressed or surprised on occasion. My mantra is generally 'if I or the NSA could imagine it, private industry will attempt it'. I still get a lot of value out of my Facebook account. Facebook pages are a gateway to niche interest groups, social trends, and the political fringes that would otherwise be inaccessible to outsiders. Seeing the ads Facebook puts in my feed helps me to calibrate my mental model of how I'm being observed, who's sharing data with who, and how online services perceive me (I typically use ad-block, and only occasionally close it to check my ads). If I want to contact someone I've only met in passing, keep up with family and political bubbles, or do a bit of background investigation, Facebook's there for me. Accessing the service requires a bit of a faustian bargain. But by the time I joined, the country had already made it on my behalf, so I opted to reap the benefits of that bargain rather than just being social collateral. Facebook could scare me off the way Google Search did - by sanitizing its content feed to the degree Google's sanitized its search. But I'd still use Messenger, and any other useful service they come up with. But otherwise it'd have to become obsolete in the same way as MySpace.
- Puer 8y ago
  Yep. I've never put any kind of personal information on FB aside from a profile picture and a name. My profile has otherwise been blank for the past 10 years. I've never liked any pages or products or left any meaningful comments that reveal anything of importance. Today, I block all of their ads and scripts (I haven't seen an ad on Facebook for the past 10 years). I've never shared my contact book as annoying as they make the popup in Instagram. Facebook has gained nothing from me directly. Others might argue they've gained more information than I could know from the people I choose to associate with, but I can't really control that. Today, I use Facebook because it's useful for connecting with people I just met, long lost friends, and because Messenger is the most convenient messaging app out there. Instagram is a great app that I enjoy using and will continue to use (also anecdotal, but I've never seen an ad in Instagram either. I guess I must not follow enough people?) Realistically, the only way I stop using FB's services is if they start charging for them. That's my personal red line, just because I'm too lazy to pay and I figure most of my friends will be, too, so they'll just move on to the next big thing.
- rabidrat 8y ago
  what do you use for search, then?
  - crocodiletears 8y ago
    For general queries, I use Searx.me. Occasionally I'll use Google if Searx is down, or I need technical information that I need search operators for. For current events, I use Searx, Bing, Yandex, Yahoo, and Baidu (if I'm really digging). I don't trust any one provider on politically sensitive topics, and the the order/kinds of the results can occasionally carry as much signal as the the content of them. I'm not conspiracy mongering, though. I merely think of search algorithms as extensions of the contexts in-which they're designed, and are more likely to represent the interests of their creators than my search for knowledge.
    - mda 8y ago
      Trusting Bing, Yandex and Baidu for politically sensitive topics? Are you being sarcastic?
rusk 8y ago
My account is currently suspended, pending me uploading identification papers to prove I am who I say I am - this despite the fact that my account was originally verified against university records back in 2007 when it was only open to verified university graduates ... It feels like a red line ... I'm mulling over various options including just letting it go. It seems like a bad idea for them since I'm one of the few people I know in my circle of friends that's still active and posting ...
vedantroy 8y ago
I don't think FB has that many unseen costs. I don't really care if FB sells my information to advertisers, so they can market products to me more effectively. I don't care if FB co-operates with other companies in order to suggest friends to me. FB adds a lot of value to my life (messaging & finding out about events). What I truly dislike about FB is that it creates information bubbles, so people are never exposed to viewpoints outside of their own. Also FB doesn't regulate false information/alt-right propaganda enough. Obviously, I would prefer if FB didn't sell my data, but at the end of the day it doesn't impact me at all. That being said, if I ever become an important figure who is running a business that is competing with Facebook in some way, then I'll be sure not to use their service.

wolco 8y ago

Start charging money.

shard972 8y ago
That would be a good thing? In all seriousness, if companies actually had to pay for your data, suddenly their business models would flip and you would find that we would go from being the products to being the customers.

logicchains 8y ago

>will you keep using their products regardless of the unseen costs you rack up? Honest answer: my purchasing/social network data is worth extremely little to me, so I don't care who has it. And I don't have a problem with advertising; I prefer to allocate responsibility to individuals for their own decisions, so if somebody is influenced by an advertisement, if anybody is to be faulted then it's themselves, not the advertisement/advertiser.

crocodiletears 8y ago

I can't think of any concrete red-line that Facebook could cross. I've never been a techno-utopian, and the Snowden leaks were the catalyst that drove me to learn programming. I recall being in my early teens, when I went to create my (first) Facebook account. I mentioned it to my dad. He explicitly told me that whatever I did on Facebook would go to their servers, that whatever reached their servers was theirs, and that they would do whatever they wanted with that data regardless of whether you agreed to it or not. The whole reason I gave up and made an account was because my friends had already given the app their contact list, and the service already had my phone number. From day one I've treated online services like amoral, dangerous animals, and so far nothing these organizations have done has especially shocked me, though I have been impressed or surprised on occasion. My mantra is generally 'if I or the NSA could imagine it, private industry will attempt it'. I still get a lot of value out of my Facebook account. Facebook pages are a gateway to niche interest groups, social trends, and the political fringes that would otherwise be inaccessible to outsiders. Seeing the ads Facebook puts in my feed helps me to calibrate my mental model of how I'm being observed, who's sharing data with who, and how online services perceive me (I typically use ad-block, and only occasionally close it to check my ads). If I want to contact someone I've only met in passing, keep up with family and political bubbles, or do a bit of background investigation, Facebook's there for me. Accessing the service requires a bit of a faustian bargain. But by the time I joined, the country had already made it on my behalf, so I opted to reap the benefits of that bargain rather than just being social collateral. Facebook could scare me off the way Google Search did - by sanitizing its content feed to the degree Google's sanitized its search. But I'd still use Messenger, and any other useful service they come up with. But otherwise it'd have to become obsolete in the same way as MySpace.

Puer 8y ago
Yep. I've never put any kind of personal information on FB aside from a profile picture and a name. My profile has otherwise been blank for the past 10 years. I've never liked any pages or products or left any meaningful comments that reveal anything of importance. Today, I block all of their ads and scripts (I haven't seen an ad on Facebook for the past 10 years). I've never shared my contact book as annoying as they make the popup in Instagram. Facebook has gained nothing from me directly. Others might argue they've gained more information than I could know from the people I choose to associate with, but I can't really control that. Today, I use Facebook because it's useful for connecting with people I just met, long lost friends, and because Messenger is the most convenient messaging app out there. Instagram is a great app that I enjoy using and will continue to use (also anecdotal, but I've never seen an ad in Instagram either. I guess I must not follow enough people?) Realistically, the only way I stop using FB's services is if they start charging for them. That's my personal red line, just because I'm too lazy to pay and I figure most of my friends will be, too, so they'll just move on to the next big thing.
rabidrat 8y ago
what do you use for search, then?
- crocodiletears 8y ago
  For general queries, I use Searx.me. Occasionally I'll use Google if Searx is down, or I need technical information that I need search operators for. For current events, I use Searx, Bing, Yandex, Yahoo, and Baidu (if I'm really digging). I don't trust any one provider on politically sensitive topics, and the the order/kinds of the results can occasionally carry as much signal as the the content of them. I'm not conspiracy mongering, though. I merely think of search algorithms as extensions of the contexts in-which they're designed, and are more likely to represent the interests of their creators than my search for knowledge.
  - mda 8y ago
    Trusting Bing, Yandex and Baidu for politically sensitive topics? Are you being sarcastic?

rusk 8y ago

My account is currently suspended, pending me uploading identification papers to prove I am who I say I am - this despite the fact that my account was originally verified against university records back in 2007 when it was only open to verified university graduates ... It feels like a red line ... I'm mulling over various options including just letting it go. It seems like a bad idea for them since I'm one of the few people I know in my circle of friends that's still active and posting ...

vedantroy 8y ago

I don't think FB has that many unseen costs. I don't really care if FB sells my information to advertisers, so they can market products to me more effectively. I don't care if FB co-operates with other companies in order to suggest friends to me. FB adds a lot of value to my life (messaging & finding out about events). What I truly dislike about FB is that it creates information bubbles, so people are never exposed to viewpoints outside of their own. Also FB doesn't regulate false information/alt-right propaganda enough. Obviously, I would prefer if FB didn't sell my data, but at the end of the day it doesn't impact me at all. That being said, if I ever become an important figure who is running a business that is competing with Facebook in some way, then I'll be sure not to use their service.