4 ms·

I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). I love OSX - could I not do the same

by czbond 8y ago

I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down?

stamps 8y ago
OSX on a phone?
- kbenson 8y ago
  There are librem laptops shown on the site.
  - emXdem 8y ago
    Good luck buying one. Took me 2 months to cancel my order, at least another month to receive my refund.
  - stamps 8y ago
    Ah, the laptops are great as well though a bit outdated now with the core counts climbing. I do have one and it works perfectly with most linux distros. I use manjaro to be specific.
kbenson 8y ago
> I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). PureOS is Debian based linux operating system.[1] > I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down? It depends entirely on how and who you trust. If you implicitly trust Apple and that their goal now (and in the future!) and that their team can vet all the code going in to the degree that no single or small group of developers there working in tandem could get a backdoor in place in either software or hardware, then I doubt there's a better choice given Apple's ability to design their own hardware and their complete control of the software stack. If you would rather trust in a large distributed group of people having public access to view and vet the source which is public and believe their vested interest in keeping the system is the better choice for continues security, choose an open source system wide wide use. 1: https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/ https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/
- fosco 8y ago
  Does that mean its running systemd? I thought that was generally frowned upon. I don't know enough to have end opinion myself but it seems like systemd was questionable especially for this type of endeavor.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    Why would systemd be frowned upon, and why would it be questionable for something like this? To my knowledge, most of the problems people have with systemd are because it replaced an extremely old and well known and understood system generally implemented with shell scripts and replaced it with a more complex and engineered project to get speed and extra features (pre-opening pipes and re-spawning listeners on the other end when a client want something from them, etc). In an effort to provide a more seamless boot, traditionally external projects ended up being subsumed (DHCP, and DNS resolution to support robust network support on boot). I'm not sure if it was ultimately the right decision or not, but since to my knowledge almost every major distribution has adopted it, I assume it's viewed as worthwhile by qiute a lot of people within the distribution planning community at least. I'm not really sure how any of that relates to this project specifically, so perhaps you're referring to some other aspect of it?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    The librem5 may as well be subtitled "The GNOME phone", I think it goes without saying that it will use systemd.
    - 153791098c 8y ago
      You are free to install any operating system on it that you like. Just like your desktop. We will probably also see 100% free android versions (like Replicant) to be released for this phone when it's out. But you could also install another GNU based Linux system of course, or just another DE.
michaelmrose 8y ago
You aren't even root on your own device what tightening down do you imagine is possible?
- saagarjha 8y ago
  macOS allows for root.
AsyncAwait 8y ago
> The really tricky problem is when a package must modify an existing shared resource. Such as appending lines to an existing config for example. A big part of Librem 5's mission is to be secure and private, but perhaps even bigger part is to be FLOSS and hackable, so one could use any host and any stack to develop pretty much anything they could on a standard GNU/Linux distro. Locking down iOS/macOS may improve security, but doesn't give you access to the source code, does not protect you from Apple and does not free you from the limitations they've put on you as a developer, or going via their-own distribution channels for that matter and having complete control over your future if you're an iOS developer. So it all depends on why you're exited about the Librem5, but if openness, FLOSS, hackability are any part of it, then locking down Apple hardware wouldn't do it.
- czbond 8y ago
  Great reply - thank you.

by czbond 8y ago

I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down?

stamps 8y ago

OSX on a phone?

kbenson 8y ago
There are librem laptops shown on the site.
- emXdem 8y ago
  Good luck buying one. Took me 2 months to cancel my order, at least another month to receive my refund.
- stamps 8y ago
  Ah, the laptops are great as well though a bit outdated now with the core counts climbing. I do have one and it works perfectly with most linux distros. I use manjaro to be specific.

kbenson 8y ago

> I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). PureOS is Debian based linux operating system.[1] > I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down? It depends entirely on how and who you trust. If you implicitly trust Apple and that their goal now (and in the future!) and that their team can vet all the code going in to the degree that no single or small group of developers there working in tandem could get a backdoor in place in either software or hardware, then I doubt there's a better choice given Apple's ability to design their own hardware and their complete control of the software stack. If you would rather trust in a large distributed group of people having public access to view and vet the source which is public and believe their vested interest in keeping the system is the better choice for continues security, choose an open source system wide wide use. 1: https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/ https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/

fosco 8y ago
Does that mean its running systemd? I thought that was generally frowned upon. I don't know enough to have end opinion myself but it seems like systemd was questionable especially for this type of endeavor.
- kbenson 8y ago
  Why would systemd be frowned upon, and why would it be questionable for something like this? To my knowledge, most of the problems people have with systemd are because it replaced an extremely old and well known and understood system generally implemented with shell scripts and replaced it with a more complex and engineered project to get speed and extra features (pre-opening pipes and re-spawning listeners on the other end when a client want something from them, etc). In an effort to provide a more seamless boot, traditionally external projects ended up being subsumed (DHCP, and DNS resolution to support robust network support on boot). I'm not sure if it was ultimately the right decision or not, but since to my knowledge almost every major distribution has adopted it, I assume it's viewed as worthwhile by qiute a lot of people within the distribution planning community at least. I'm not really sure how any of that relates to this project specifically, so perhaps you're referring to some other aspect of it?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  The librem5 may as well be subtitled "The GNOME phone", I think it goes without saying that it will use systemd.
  - 153791098c 8y ago
    You are free to install any operating system on it that you like. Just like your desktop. We will probably also see 100% free android versions (like Replicant) to be released for this phone when it's out. But you could also install another GNU based Linux system of course, or just another DE.

michaelmrose 8y ago

You aren't even root on your own device what tightening down do you imagine is possible?

saagarjha 8y ago
macOS allows for root.

AsyncAwait 8y ago

> The really tricky problem is when a package must modify an existing shared resource. Such as appending lines to an existing config for example. A big part of Librem 5's mission is to be secure and private, but perhaps even bigger part is to be FLOSS and hackable, so one could use any host and any stack to develop pretty much anything they could on a standard GNU/Linux distro. Locking down iOS/macOS may improve security, but doesn't give you access to the source code, does not protect you from Apple and does not free you from the limitations they've put on you as a developer, or going via their-own distribution channels for that matter and having complete control over your future if you're an iOS developer. So it all depends on why you're exited about the Librem5, but if openness, FLOSS, hackability are any part of it, then locking down Apple hardware wouldn't do it.

czbond 8y ago
Great reply - thank you.