3 ms·

Surely it's cheaper to provide this kind of protection (I assumed it would be OSHA-mandated honestly) than it is to pay for the healthcare and/or lawsuits that

Surely it's cheaper to provide this kind of protection (I assumed it would be OSHA-mandated honestly) than it is to pay for the healthcare and/or lawsuits that follow? I admittedly haven't read the article yet, but it's surprising to me that black lung / industrial air quality isn't something that OSHA (or similar) is tasked with ensuring ample worker protections for.

fzeroracer 8y ago
Presumably if the coal industry has regulatory capture then the rules are written to allow for easily exploitable loopholes. Not to mention many people simply can't afford a lawyer or have no way of getting to one. So a lawsuit becomes simply an expected cost of doing business, like how some software companies treat data leaks.
parshimers 8y ago
>In the past 30 years, the biggest coal seams were mined out in Appalachia, leaving thinner seams coursing through sandstone. ... >And because there's no coal, it is considered development mining or construction. So sampling the air for toxic dust is not required, even though it is the most dangerous dust. Former MSHA officials told us some inspectors did it, but most did not. Hopefully the lawsuits cost them. However the folks that make these decisions never see the consequences; they've taken their bonuses and gone by now. Furthermore the mine doesn't pay for medicare. We all do.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "Furthermore the mine doesn't pay for medicare. We all do. " Exactly. Worst case they can file for bankruptcy and blame evil environmentalists.
- justin66 8y ago
  However the folks that make these decisions never see the consequences; they've taken their bonuses and gone by now. It's worse than that. There might not be a company left when these guys start needing health care in a big way. (Or the mine's environmental impact is starting to be felt, or whatever) That's normal: a mine can be structured as a dividend paying company (with one big asset) that gradually becomes less and less valuable until it's worthless at the end. If the company goes bankrupt at that point, no big deal, it's already paid what it was meant to pay for its investors. And yes, management.
- dzhiurgis 8y ago
  In NZ employers with higher risk pay more to the medical pool. Accidents outside work are paid for from common pool. Chronic diseases from unhealthy lifestyle (or bad luck) are not compensated. I can't think of a better system.
fian 8y ago
The time-lag for the health problems to appear allows current management to take the risk and extract extra profit (and bonuses). That the company may be liable for health care costs of employees or is sued after current management have moved on or retired is an externality for them personally.
sergiotapia 8y ago
"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." Apply this through the OSHA lense, and voila.

fzeroracer 8y ago

Presumably if the coal industry has regulatory capture then the rules are written to allow for easily exploitable loopholes. Not to mention many people simply can't afford a lawyer or have no way of getting to one. So a lawsuit becomes simply an expected cost of doing business, like how some software companies treat data leaks.

parshimers 8y ago

>In the past 30 years, the biggest coal seams were mined out in Appalachia, leaving thinner seams coursing through sandstone. ... >And because there's no coal, it is considered development mining or construction. So sampling the air for toxic dust is not required, even though it is the most dangerous dust. Former MSHA officials told us some inspectors did it, but most did not. Hopefully the lawsuits cost them. However the folks that make these decisions never see the consequences; they've taken their bonuses and gone by now. Furthermore the mine doesn't pay for medicare. We all do.

maxxxxx 8y ago
"Furthermore the mine doesn't pay for medicare. We all do. " Exactly. Worst case they can file for bankruptcy and blame evil environmentalists.
justin66 8y ago
However the folks that make these decisions never see the consequences; they've taken their bonuses and gone by now. It's worse than that. There might not be a company left when these guys start needing health care in a big way. (Or the mine's environmental impact is starting to be felt, or whatever) That's normal: a mine can be structured as a dividend paying company (with one big asset) that gradually becomes less and less valuable until it's worthless at the end. If the company goes bankrupt at that point, no big deal, it's already paid what it was meant to pay for its investors. And yes, management.
dzhiurgis 8y ago
In NZ employers with higher risk pay more to the medical pool. Accidents outside work are paid for from common pool. Chronic diseases from unhealthy lifestyle (or bad luck) are not compensated. I can't think of a better system.

fian 8y ago

The time-lag for the health problems to appear allows current management to take the risk and extract extra profit (and bonuses). That the company may be liable for health care costs of employees or is sued after current management have moved on or retired is an externality for them personally.

sergiotapia 8y ago

"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." Apply this through the OSHA lense, and voila.