4 ms·

Dishonesty greases the world. I don’t we could handle complete honesty from everyone. Not unless we structurally change society from the ground up.

Nasrudith 8y ago
I think that is what makes transparency so scary to many people - aside from cynical reasons. Society has long been accustomed to their hypocrisies and transparency forces people to change it and accept them. I think it might be evolutinary for the same reason people are reluctant to openly question authority or hold it to the same standards and why public speaking is feared more than death - angering the big man could get your entire family killed. It reminds me of one thing that Google faced backlash in Japan over with streetview - people worried about being caught shitfaced drunk and ashamed of it. Everyone knew that it was a norm that "everyone" does yet they were ashamed of it.
PavlovsCat 8y ago
Honesty is part of the reason there is a desirable world to grease to begin with. And "complete honesty" is a red herring, an unreachable ideal anyway. What we can do is stay as honest as we are, strive to be more honest, and more inviting and supporting of honesty, or becoming more dishonest. And you can of course still adapt it to another person; if someone is punishing people for being honest there is no reason to fall onto your sword, let them surround themselves with the kind of people they deserve, and keep your capacity and willingness for honesty for the people who deserve that. "Being honest" isn't this kind of absolute thing, but that doesn't mean it's not anything. And hey, honesty can be quite disarming, especially when it comes with genuine goodwill, while dishonesty can trip people up. At the least, it costs a lot of resources to have various versions of the truth and juggle them constantly, the more that can be simplified the better. It really does help thinking. You can't think freely if you're not free, and that's a hell of a thing to give up.
JohnFen 8y ago
"Dishonesty greases the world." Dishonesty only greases things in the very short term. Longer term, that grease degrades and gets fouled with all manner of dirt, resulting in damage to the "greased" parts.
- AgentOrange1234 8y ago
  Hear, hear. I was dishonest for years in my personal life, to make things smooth in the short term. Finally things got so bad that I stopped caring about the consequences of honesty, and started saying what I really thought. It really turned things around. There’s great power in communicating honestly, and bugger the consequences.
  - humanrebar 8y ago
    Love rejoices in the truth. But love is also ready to take it on the chin for others' benefit.
    - PavlovsCat 8y ago
      > Love is not blind - it sees more, not less. But because it sees more, it is willing to see less. -- Rabbi J. Gordon
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    It is really amazing, isn't it? It requires true bravery to be honest, particularly when doing so may make others upset with you. But it really does improve your life. Those people who get upset will get upset sooner or later anyway, but when you're honest, they'll be less upset, get over it faster, and will retain a level of respect for you that you would otherwise lose. In my personal life, I have two observations about being honest. First, honesty should be paired with treating others with dignity and respect. Second, not everything needs to be said. While you can lie by omission, often you can and should omit without lying. (A "lie" is a deliberate deception, and can be done without saying a word, or without saying anything that is factually incorrect.)

Nasrudith 8y ago

I think that is what makes transparency so scary to many people - aside from cynical reasons. Society has long been accustomed to their hypocrisies and transparency forces people to change it and accept them. I think it might be evolutinary for the same reason people are reluctant to openly question authority or hold it to the same standards and why public speaking is feared more than death - angering the big man could get your entire family killed. It reminds me of one thing that Google faced backlash in Japan over with streetview - people worried about being caught shitfaced drunk and ashamed of it. Everyone knew that it was a norm that "everyone" does yet they were ashamed of it.

PavlovsCat 8y ago

Honesty is part of the reason there is a desirable world to grease to begin with. And "complete honesty" is a red herring, an unreachable ideal anyway. What we can do is stay as honest as we are, strive to be more honest, and more inviting and supporting of honesty, or becoming more dishonest. And you can of course still adapt it to another person; if someone is punishing people for being honest there is no reason to fall onto your sword, let them surround themselves with the kind of people they deserve, and keep your capacity and willingness for honesty for the people who deserve that. "Being honest" isn't this kind of absolute thing, but that doesn't mean it's not anything. And hey, honesty can be quite disarming, especially when it comes with genuine goodwill, while dishonesty can trip people up. At the least, it costs a lot of resources to have various versions of the truth and juggle them constantly, the more that can be simplified the better. It really does help thinking. You can't think freely if you're not free, and that's a hell of a thing to give up.

JohnFen 8y ago

"Dishonesty greases the world." Dishonesty only greases things in the very short term. Longer term, that grease degrades and gets fouled with all manner of dirt, resulting in damage to the "greased" parts.

AgentOrange1234 8y ago
Hear, hear. I was dishonest for years in my personal life, to make things smooth in the short term. Finally things got so bad that I stopped caring about the consequences of honesty, and started saying what I really thought. It really turned things around. There’s great power in communicating honestly, and bugger the consequences.
- humanrebar 8y ago
  Love rejoices in the truth. But love is also ready to take it on the chin for others' benefit.
  - PavlovsCat 8y ago
    > Love is not blind - it sees more, not less. But because it sees more, it is willing to see less. -- Rabbi J. Gordon
- JohnFen 8y ago
  It is really amazing, isn't it? It requires true bravery to be honest, particularly when doing so may make others upset with you. But it really does improve your life. Those people who get upset will get upset sooner or later anyway, but when you're honest, they'll be less upset, get over it faster, and will retain a level of respect for you that you would otherwise lose. In my personal life, I have two observations about being honest. First, honesty should be paired with treating others with dignity and respect. Second, not everything needs to be said. While you can lie by omission, often you can and should omit without lying. (A "lie" is a deliberate deception, and can be done without saying a word, or without saying anything that is factually incorrect.)