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Your delusion is that you associate everyone on these platforms with the alt-right because some of them are alt-right. The reason alt-right flock to those platf

Your delusion is that you associate everyone on these platforms with the alt-right because some of them are alt-right. The reason alt-right flock to those platforms is because they are de-platformed elsewhere. This does not make the non alt-right people on those platforms suddenly become alt-right. And the reason "alt-right" and "racist troll" mean nothing is because they are used so liberally where they do not apply, and a few minutes of investigation would conclude that they do not apply. Consistent incorrect usage of language applied to something that it is not makes them lose their meaning. A solution to the "adhering to free speech" would be to allow free speech on platforms, and make it clear what is or isn't allowed on the platform, instead of using vague terms like "hate speech", which could be literally anything that some person finds undesirable.

diminoten 8y ago
It's not a delusion, it's the association that kills new startups. You can rail against suppression of speech all you want, a company whose loudest and most active users are white supremacists either has to lean-in to that culture, remove it from the site entirely, or hide it. The first option is moral bankruptcy, the second option is an uncomfortable practicality on the limits of free speech, and the third option makes your new site look dead from the outside. You act like this is a simple problem to solve, but it's far from simple, and getting it even slightly wrong means startup death, period.
- sparkie 8y ago
  What kills startups is a cartel of payment processors colluding to limit competition. A free market would allow users to make their own decisions about what platforms they wish to use. The entrenched players simply do not want to allow competition, and moreso, they want to involve regulators so that they become in effect "utility providers," which will cement their market positions, otherwise under threat due to their failure to continue innovating. In a free market, the majority of people would not entertain far-right or far-left forums and would congregate on the services which are providing engaging and meaningful content. This is the case for say, Youtube right now, but if they have an asymmetric approach to censorship (failing to ban far left ideologues), then they'll end up a far-left cesspit that people will leave in droves.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    What kills startups is a flock of alt-right users who scare away people not like them (the xenophobia is definitional to "alt-right"), so if you let them stay and don't hide them, you immediately cap your growth substantially. If you let them stay and do somehow hide them, you're hiding your growth which also kills you. A free market would (and does) kill a startup that allows such toxic members of any affiliation, regardless of what payment processors decide to do.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    You make a lot of comments about the "far-left", I'm guessing this is personal for you.
    - sparkie 8y ago
      The far-left has been getting more extreme over the last few years, probably largely due to "trump derangement syndrome". I care very deeply about fundamental human rights such as free speech. Many people do not seem to understand what free speech is. I also care about due process and putting people before a jury of their peers. The witch hunting needs to stop. I'd consider myself moderate right. I used to lean to the left, but there is no way I can associate myself with what the left has become.
      - diminoten 8y ago
        I guess my point in all this is that it's hard to mesh practicality (not having your startup fail) with ideology (not suppressing people's human right to free speech). I'm with you on free speech, but I also don't know what I'd do if I were in Twitter/Reddit's shoes, because I don't think "do nothing and let the hatred continue" is viable (both from a business and kindness perspective), but I also don't think suppressing it is morally justified.
        sparkie 8y ago
        Most of the hate is coming from the left, but this is "acceptable hate" if is directed at white/straight/christian/men, or other bogeyman they can come up with to justify their eternal victimhood. The divisions are only getting wider, and it is helpful to neither side. When people say racism is on the rise, they couldn't be more correct. White-racism is on the rise, and tolerated. The increase in white supremacists I see as largely a reaction to this. I'm not a selective racist and I despise racism in all of its forms. Sexism too. Sexism against men is also very real, especially in tech. A diversity quota is a sexism quota. A person's gender should not factor into a hiring decision at all.

diminoten 8y ago

It's not a delusion, it's the association that kills new startups. You can rail against suppression of speech all you want, a company whose loudest and most active users are white supremacists either has to lean-in to that culture, remove it from the site entirely, or hide it. The first option is moral bankruptcy, the second option is an uncomfortable practicality on the limits of free speech, and the third option makes your new site look dead from the outside. You act like this is a simple problem to solve, but it's far from simple, and getting it even slightly wrong means startup death, period.

sparkie 8y ago
What kills startups is a cartel of payment processors colluding to limit competition. A free market would allow users to make their own decisions about what platforms they wish to use. The entrenched players simply do not want to allow competition, and moreso, they want to involve regulators so that they become in effect "utility providers," which will cement their market positions, otherwise under threat due to their failure to continue innovating. In a free market, the majority of people would not entertain far-right or far-left forums and would congregate on the services which are providing engaging and meaningful content. This is the case for say, Youtube right now, but if they have an asymmetric approach to censorship (failing to ban far left ideologues), then they'll end up a far-left cesspit that people will leave in droves.
- diminoten 8y ago
  What kills startups is a flock of alt-right users who scare away people not like them (the xenophobia is definitional to "alt-right"), so if you let them stay and don't hide them, you immediately cap your growth substantially. If you let them stay and do somehow hide them, you're hiding your growth which also kills you. A free market would (and does) kill a startup that allows such toxic members of any affiliation, regardless of what payment processors decide to do.
- diminoten 8y ago
  You make a lot of comments about the "far-left", I'm guessing this is personal for you.
  - sparkie 8y ago
    The far-left has been getting more extreme over the last few years, probably largely due to "trump derangement syndrome". I care very deeply about fundamental human rights such as free speech. Many people do not seem to understand what free speech is. I also care about due process and putting people before a jury of their peers. The witch hunting needs to stop. I'd consider myself moderate right. I used to lean to the left, but there is no way I can associate myself with what the left has become.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      I guess my point in all this is that it's hard to mesh practicality (not having your startup fail) with ideology (not suppressing people's human right to free speech). I'm with you on free speech, but I also don't know what I'd do if I were in Twitter/Reddit's shoes, because I don't think "do nothing and let the hatred continue" is viable (both from a business and kindness perspective), but I also don't think suppressing it is morally justified.
      - sparkie 8y ago
        Most of the hate is coming from the left, but this is "acceptable hate" if is directed at white/straight/christian/men, or other bogeyman they can come up with to justify their eternal victimhood. The divisions are only getting wider, and it is helpful to neither side. When people say racism is on the rise, they couldn't be more correct. White-racism is on the rise, and tolerated. The increase in white supremacists I see as largely a reaction to this. I'm not a selective racist and I despise racism in all of its forms. Sexism too. Sexism against men is also very real, especially in tech. A diversity quota is a sexism quota. A person's gender should not factor into a hiring decision at all.