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Elon Musk’s New Boring Co. Faced Questions Over SpaceX Financial Ties

28 points by adrianscott 8y ago

StudentStuff 8y ago
The Boring Company is on really shaky ground after the entrance cave in back on Dec 5th and construction setbacks. It'll be interesting to see if they survive, they're still in live or die startup mode.
- keyle 8y ago
  We've had a few tunnels built around my city. It transpired through every one of those projects: late, ended up bankrupt, rebought, refinanced, ended up expensive to users. I mean they still made them and they work, well, but $10 a toll :)
- SECProto 8y ago
  The Boring Company is on really shaky ground after the entrance cave in back on Dec 5th and construction setbacks I didn't hear of any cave in, and googling results in nothing. Care to explain what you're talking about?
  - StudentStuff 8y ago
    Its remained relatively hush hush, but the entrance to the tunnel (not the tunnel itself) experienced some damage from a cave in, delaying the December 10th public opening: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-boring-companys-la-tunnel/ https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-b... Presumably everything else is on track, but when it comes to geotechnical engineering, stabilizing earth is challenging, and the engineers appear to want to wait more than 3 or 4 days after the cave-in to see if their method of stabilization (whether they used these neat ground screws, thicker walls, or a pairing) is stable and ready for non-employees to be near.
    - SECProto 8y ago
      Its remained relatively hush hush, but the entrance to the tunnel (not the tunnel itself) experienced some damage from a cave in, delaying the December 10th public opening: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-boring-companys-la-tunnel/ https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-b... That article mentions absolutely nothing about a cave in. I wasn't disputing the delay thing (definitely an issue with any project of Musk's), but claiming that there was a cave in requires a legitimate source.
      - SECProto 8y ago
        I did more research and still came up blank - I saw a number of headlines talking about "boring company caves in" - but they use it as a metaphor for them abandoning plans to extend the tunnel significantly. Not an actual cave in.
synaesthesisx 8y ago
On the topic of The Boring Company, is anyone else going to the tunnel unveil event tomorrow?
Eire_Banshee 8y ago
Isnt it a subsidiary of SpaceX though?
- adrianscott 8y ago
  Nearly $113M raised, wsj article says it owns only 6% https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/16/elon-musks-boring-co-raises-113-million-to-chase-a-pipe-dream/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/16/elon-musks-boring-co-raise... https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1737630/000173763018000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1737630/000173763018...
grecy 8y ago
Wow, what a headline "Company faces Questions" ?!?! Oh my, not nasty, horrible, scary, questions! The anti-Telsa/SpaceX/Elon news cycle gets more transparent every day.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
electriclove 8y ago
I'm glad SpaceX is private. There are legitimate concerns here but let the man build his tunnels!
woah 8y ago
Could this be tunneling? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunneling_(fraud) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunneling_(fraud)
keyle 8y ago
un-paywall https://outline.com/RcMRDF https://outline.com/RcMRDF
robertAngst 8y ago
I'm somewhat horrified by the constant struggles Musk's companies have with ethics. Why is there a cult following when fraud and employee abuse is common?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- 69132 8y ago
  It's because Musk has cultivated a tech-god image for the last decade. From cameos in movies and tv shows to projects like SpaceX that were created solely to boost his "genius" image, Musk (or his publicists) have done everything to make him seem like a superhuman.
- jcranmer 8y ago
  > Why is there a cult following when fraud and employee abuse is common? Musk can present an image of a successful multiple entrepreneur who is working towards a vision that many support arrayed against a forces of Big Bad Incumbents who would rather squash him than compete fairly. Thus he is responsible for all the good things, and the bad things are just smear campaigns that should be ignored. Essentially, it's the same force that fuels the rise of people like Trump, just applied to a different part of the political spectrum.
- chr1 8y ago
  Because there have not been any serious reports of fraud and abuse, and the things he built are so important for the future of humanity, that even much more serious accusations won't change the total balance to a negative for Musk.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    There have been dozens of articles detailing fraud and abuse at Tesla, quite a few articles about Boring Co's liberties with the truth and its outright lies to the people in the neighborhood where the tunnel is being built. SolarCity's financials were so bad they went through multiple auditing firms before they found one that would sign off on them. All in all, Musk's companies have an above-average incidence of ethics- and truth-related issues.
jonathankoren 8y ago
Whoa. So he's diverting employees and equipment from investor backed SpaceX, to a side venture where he owns 90% of the equity? This is sketchy fiduciary duty. Right up there when he bailed out his brother's SolarCity by having Tesla buy it because every car manufacture needs to get into the rooftop solar business.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  You're being voted down by the Tesla brigade, but you are absolutely right. Given the de minimis SpaceX equity in BoringCo, Musk's use of SpaceX resources without compensation by BoringCo is a flagrant violation of his fiduciary duties to SpaceX's investors. That's why it's been so important to him to keep his boards stocked with friends and family--an actual corporate board of directors would have sent him to the curb long ago.
m3kw9 8y ago
I really believe Tesla, Boring and SpaceX is part of a grand strategy that will give Musk almost insurmountable moat.
- jonathankoren 8y ago
  Serious question. Do you mean like a physical barrier? Similar to absconding to New Zealand when SHTF and it’s TEOTWAWKI? In a very real sense, Mars is the ultimate gated community. See also https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-rich-new-zealand-doomsday-preppers/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-rich-new-zealand-doo...
throwawaylalala 8y ago
I mean, its pretty clear he’s building all the tech to colonize Mars. Boring is an important part of that.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  Indeed. Underground construction is the most effective way to protect against environmental concerns like meteor strikes and radiation.
mr_toad 8y ago
It’s not like Musk hasn’t openly stated that the whole purpose of SpaceX is Martian colonisation. What do they think The Boring Company is really for? And Tesla, and Solar City for that matter. Perhaps if they aren’t smart enough to connect the dots they aren’t smart enough to be investing in high risk private companies.
- cma 8y ago
  > Perhaps if they aren’t smart enough to connect the dots they aren’t smart enough to be investing in high risk private companies. If they are investing one companies resources they expect equity or payment, regardless of if the tunnels are useful for Mars.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  What do they think The Boring Company is really for? And Tesla, and Solar City for that matter. Uh huh. Sure it is. That would explain why Solar City has thus far failed to account for the significantly reduced amount of solar energy that reaches Mars. Solar cells can't charge EVs fast enough on Earth. With the same panel area, it would take most of a Martian year to charge a single EV on Mars. But as with the hyperloop, Musk has done a great job of getting people to fall for his half-assed fantasies. Somehow though, whenever you actually try to look into his ideas with more scrutiny, they always fall apart like a house of cards.
  - SECProto 8y ago
    That would explain why Solar City has thus far failed to account for the significantly reduced amount of solar energy that reaches Mars. Solar cells can't charge EVs fast enough on Earth. With the same panel area, it would take most of a Martian year to charge a single EV on Mars. What are you talking about? Solar can charge an electric car just fine. Take desired charge rate in kW, divide by nameplate power output of panel, and that's how many panels you need. If you live somewhere with constraints on solar input (eg reduction due to clouds, distance from sun, or night) then you can increase the panel amount, maybe add some stationary batteries to timeshift the input. Edit: not meant as a personal attack at all, but noticed your other comments around the thread are loose enough with the facts. Musk could learn a thing or two :)
onetimemanytime 8y ago
Wait until Boring Co is bought by another Musk company like Musk did last time with that failing solar company.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

28 points by adrianscott 8y ago

The Boring Company is on really shaky ground after the entrance cave in back on Dec 5th and construction setbacks. It'll be interesting to see if they survive, they're still in live or die startup mode.

keyle 8y ago
We've had a few tunnels built around my city. It transpired through every one of those projects: late, ended up bankrupt, rebought, refinanced, ended up expensive to users. I mean they still made them and they work, well, but $10 a toll :)
SECProto 8y ago
The Boring Company is on really shaky ground after the entrance cave in back on Dec 5th and construction setbacks I didn't hear of any cave in, and googling results in nothing. Care to explain what you're talking about?
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  Its remained relatively hush hush, but the entrance to the tunnel (not the tunnel itself) experienced some damage from a cave in, delaying the December 10th public opening: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-boring-companys-la-tunnel/ https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-b... Presumably everything else is on track, but when it comes to geotechnical engineering, stabilizing earth is challenging, and the engineers appear to want to wait more than 3 or 4 days after the cave-in to see if their method of stabilization (whether they used these neat ground screws, thicker walls, or a pairing) is stable and ready for non-employees to be near.
  - SECProto 8y ago
    Its remained relatively hush hush, but the entrance to the tunnel (not the tunnel itself) experienced some damage from a cave in, delaying the December 10th public opening: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-boring-companys-la-tunnel/ https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-pushes-back-opening-of-b... That article mentions absolutely nothing about a cave in. I wasn't disputing the delay thing (definitely an issue with any project of Musk's), but claiming that there was a cave in requires a legitimate source.
    - SECProto 8y ago
      I did more research and still came up blank - I saw a number of headlines talking about "boring company caves in" - but they use it as a metaphor for them abandoning plans to extend the tunnel significantly. Not an actual cave in.

synaesthesisx 8y ago

On the topic of The Boring Company, is anyone else going to the tunnel unveil event tomorrow?

Eire_Banshee 8y ago

Isnt it a subsidiary of SpaceX though?

adrianscott 8y ago
Nearly $113M raised, wsj article says it owns only 6% https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/16/elon-musks-boring-co-raises-113-million-to-chase-a-pipe-dream/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/16/elon-musks-boring-co-raise... https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1737630/000173763018000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1737630/000173763018...

grecy 8y ago

Wow, what a headline "Company faces Questions" ?!?! Oh my, not nasty, horrible, scary, questions! The anti-Telsa/SpaceX/Elon news cycle gets more transparent every day.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

electriclove 8y ago

I'm glad SpaceX is private. There are legitimate concerns here but let the man build his tunnels!

woah 8y ago

Could this be tunneling? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunneling_(fraud) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunneling_(fraud)

keyle 8y ago

un-paywall https://outline.com/RcMRDF https://outline.com/RcMRDF

robertAngst 8y ago

I'm somewhat horrified by the constant struggles Musk's companies have with ethics. Why is there a cult following when fraud and employee abuse is common?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
69132 8y ago
It's because Musk has cultivated a tech-god image for the last decade. From cameos in movies and tv shows to projects like SpaceX that were created solely to boost his "genius" image, Musk (or his publicists) have done everything to make him seem like a superhuman.
jcranmer 8y ago
> Why is there a cult following when fraud and employee abuse is common? Musk can present an image of a successful multiple entrepreneur who is working towards a vision that many support arrayed against a forces of Big Bad Incumbents who would rather squash him than compete fairly. Thus he is responsible for all the good things, and the bad things are just smear campaigns that should be ignored. Essentially, it's the same force that fuels the rise of people like Trump, just applied to a different part of the political spectrum.
chr1 8y ago
Because there have not been any serious reports of fraud and abuse, and the things he built are so important for the future of humanity, that even much more serious accusations won't change the total balance to a negative for Musk.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  There have been dozens of articles detailing fraud and abuse at Tesla, quite a few articles about Boring Co's liberties with the truth and its outright lies to the people in the neighborhood where the tunnel is being built. SolarCity's financials were so bad they went through multiple auditing firms before they found one that would sign off on them. All in all, Musk's companies have an above-average incidence of ethics- and truth-related issues.

jonathankoren 8y ago

Whoa. So he's diverting employees and equipment from investor backed SpaceX, to a side venture where he owns 90% of the equity? This is sketchy fiduciary duty. Right up there when he bailed out his brother's SolarCity by having Tesla buy it because every car manufacture needs to get into the rooftop solar business.

gamblor956 8y ago
You're being voted down by the Tesla brigade, but you are absolutely right. Given the de minimis SpaceX equity in BoringCo, Musk's use of SpaceX resources without compensation by BoringCo is a flagrant violation of his fiduciary duties to SpaceX's investors. That's why it's been so important to him to keep his boards stocked with friends and family--an actual corporate board of directors would have sent him to the curb long ago.

m3kw9 8y ago

I really believe Tesla, Boring and SpaceX is part of a grand strategy that will give Musk almost insurmountable moat.

jonathankoren 8y ago
Serious question. Do you mean like a physical barrier? Similar to absconding to New Zealand when SHTF and it’s TEOTWAWKI? In a very real sense, Mars is the ultimate gated community. See also https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-rich-new-zealand-doomsday-preppers/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-rich-new-zealand-doo...

throwawaylalala 8y ago

I mean, its pretty clear he’s building all the tech to colonize Mars. Boring is an important part of that.

yellowapple 8y ago
Indeed. Underground construction is the most effective way to protect against environmental concerns like meteor strikes and radiation.

mr_toad 8y ago

It’s not like Musk hasn’t openly stated that the whole purpose of SpaceX is Martian colonisation. What do they think The Boring Company is really for? And Tesla, and Solar City for that matter. Perhaps if they aren’t smart enough to connect the dots they aren’t smart enough to be investing in high risk private companies.

cma 8y ago
> Perhaps if they aren’t smart enough to connect the dots they aren’t smart enough to be investing in high risk private companies. If they are investing one companies resources they expect equity or payment, regardless of if the tunnels are useful for Mars.
gamblor956 8y ago
What do they think The Boring Company is really for? And Tesla, and Solar City for that matter. Uh huh. Sure it is. That would explain why Solar City has thus far failed to account for the significantly reduced amount of solar energy that reaches Mars. Solar cells can't charge EVs fast enough on Earth. With the same panel area, it would take most of a Martian year to charge a single EV on Mars. But as with the hyperloop, Musk has done a great job of getting people to fall for his half-assed fantasies. Somehow though, whenever you actually try to look into his ideas with more scrutiny, they always fall apart like a house of cards.
- SECProto 8y ago
  That would explain why Solar City has thus far failed to account for the significantly reduced amount of solar energy that reaches Mars. Solar cells can't charge EVs fast enough on Earth. With the same panel area, it would take most of a Martian year to charge a single EV on Mars. What are you talking about? Solar can charge an electric car just fine. Take desired charge rate in kW, divide by nameplate power output of panel, and that's how many panels you need. If you live somewhere with constraints on solar input (eg reduction due to clouds, distance from sun, or night) then you can increase the panel amount, maybe add some stationary batteries to timeshift the input. Edit: not meant as a personal attack at all, but noticed your other comments around the thread are loose enough with the facts. Musk could learn a thing or two :)

onetimemanytime 8y ago

Wait until Boring Co is bought by another Musk company like Musk did last time with that failing solar company.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]