5 ms·

Hate Speech on Patreon

30 points by h- 8y ago

chrisco255 8y ago
I don't have any context for Patreon's move here. Does anyone know the back story? What the guy said sounds douchey, dimwitted and racist... But here's another case for decentralization of monetization. I don't care whether someone says something offensive or not...if Bob wants to donate money to Alice, that's their right. They shouldn't have to go through Patreon or PayPal or any other centralized service. And Alice shouldn't have to fear getting on some PC movement's bad side.
- hashberry 8y ago
  He is an infamous provocateur. I'm pretty sure this is the real reason why he was banned: https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/6/27/15880582/anita-sarkeesian-garbage-human-vidcon-interview https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/6/27/15880582/anita-sa...
  - qu4z-2 8y ago
    Attending a con doesn't strike me as that provocative, honestly. (I do agree that he's kind of a dick, don't get me wrong. Just not in that particular incident so much).
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- hardboiled 8y ago
  The irony is that if you use Patreon's search functionality to search for slurs and other hate speech you will find plenty more blatant and obvious instances on their own platform.
hashberry 8y ago
I find I change my language depending on my audience. Sargon was addressing the alt-right in an interview and using their own racist and sexist language against them, to insult them. It doesn't seem like he was attacking the black community or the gay community.
- throsby 8y ago
  I agree. I found the livestream that Patreon transcribed in the article[1]. From what I can tell, the context is that he is responding to an alt-right troll commenting in the chat. He appears to be throwing the racially-charged language back at the troll and criticising them for being so disrespectful. From his mocking tone, I did not get the impression that he condoned their prejudice. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74llFWdeKNM&feature=youtu.be&t=4162 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74llFWdeKNM&feature=youtu.be...
  - zimpenfish 8y ago
    > He appears to be throwing the racially-charged language back at the troll He seems to be using the N word specifically as a pejorative because they're annoying him. (And then uses "faggot" also as a pejorative because why not?) "White people are meant to be polite and respect each other", combined with the use of the N word towards the commentators, is fairly racially charged, no?
    - nugga 8y ago
      Sargon claims he is using the word in the way described in this stand up comedy routine where Chris Rock (a black person) talks about the difference between 'Black people and niggers' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4 Sargon said something like he was denigrating the 'alt right / nazi trolls' for behaving the way the 'nazis' claim the people they hate behave in.
      - zimpenfish 8y ago
        > Sargon claims Well, of course he does. He'd be stupid not to. But it's very easy to say "ONLY JOKING" whenever you get called on your offensive bullshit that you originally intended.
        nugga 8y ago
        Yes didn't he say he meant to cause offense? Using that word (or any word) to offend non blacks does not somehow cause it to grow tentacles and attack every black person alive. Context and intent matters and I don't think you or anyone else gets to make that call on "hidden motives" or effects beyond what is stated on record.
aestetix 8y ago
> Some people worry that we are reviewing content not posted on Patreon. As a funding platform, we don’t host much content, but we help fund creations across the internet. As a result, we review creations posted on other platforms that are funded through Patreon. So if I want to get someone suspended, I dig through their history, find an instance where they used a word ten years ago that has now become "hate speech", create my own Patreon, and post their comments in my Patreon?
- cm2187 8y ago
  Also in an interview a year ago [1], Patreon's CEO explicitely promised they would not do what they just did. But in this case they are characterising as hate speech the simple use of slang, even when there is no hateful intention. This is just the political correctness ayatollahs becoming over-zealous, which I find hard to justify and certainly won't support with my money. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw
anfilt 8y ago
Man, I read some of the comments on that article it makes it seem like patreaon made a mistake. Although, it's just internet comments, but the fact patreaon has posted about it themselves makes me go hmm... Not sure of the whole story, but when a company makes a response like that it screams damage control to me. The comments the article did highlight do seem pretty blunt, but for a company to respond openly like this makes it seem like there is more to it than I understand.
raarts 8y ago
People are increasingly withdrawing from Patreon. Earlier Sexy Cyborg was forced off by Vice [1] (they're now trying to push her off SubscribeStar[2]), but very recently people like Jordan Peterson, Quillette, and others are moving away and setting up their own crowdfunding platform [3]. And I fully agree that a crowdfunding platform should not be involved with 'de-platforming'. [1] https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETt5JzufY4&t=0s&list=LLcD8FIJuOWrIHdMKafy_K0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETt5JzufY4&t=0s&list=LLcD8F... [3] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/jordan-peterson-says-hell-launch-patreon-alternative-before-christmas-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/jordan-peterson-says-hell...
SkeptinenSpede5 8y ago
Ban everybody who do not agree with mainstream ideology please. It's one and only truth. Google is not evil and Facebook and Twitter are build freedom of speech in mind
GreaterFool 8y ago
I think this is just the straw that broke the camel's back. This sort of thing has been happening for a while. I recall a story where someone's account somewhere was closed because Visa or MasterCard (credit card company!) complained about what they said online. Financial companies have too much power. They always had. But right now they started exercising it in a way that is very worrisome. Banks can close your account for no reason. PayPal can close your account for no reason. Visa or MasterCard can stop doing business with you for no reason. And what are you going to do then? There's a global "war on cash". Anything beyond few hundred $ is hard to get. Try to deposit it in a bank and they'll ask you million questions about where it's from and what are you going to use it for. Try to withdraw it and you'll raise some flags.
- dtoc 8y ago
  Maybe cryptocurrencies will have some real-world value after all!

30 points by h- 8y ago

I don't have any context for Patreon's move here. Does anyone know the back story? What the guy said sounds douchey, dimwitted and racist... But here's another case for decentralization of monetization. I don't care whether someone says something offensive or not...if Bob wants to donate money to Alice, that's their right. They shouldn't have to go through Patreon or PayPal or any other centralized service. And Alice shouldn't have to fear getting on some PC movement's bad side.

hashberry 8y ago
He is an infamous provocateur. I'm pretty sure this is the real reason why he was banned: https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/6/27/15880582/anita-sarkeesian-garbage-human-vidcon-interview https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/6/27/15880582/anita-sa...
- qu4z-2 8y ago
  Attending a con doesn't strike me as that provocative, honestly. (I do agree that he's kind of a dick, don't get me wrong. Just not in that particular incident so much).
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
hardboiled 8y ago
The irony is that if you use Patreon's search functionality to search for slurs and other hate speech you will find plenty more blatant and obvious instances on their own platform.

hashberry 8y ago

I find I change my language depending on my audience. Sargon was addressing the alt-right in an interview and using their own racist and sexist language against them, to insult them. It doesn't seem like he was attacking the black community or the gay community.

throsby 8y ago
I agree. I found the livestream that Patreon transcribed in the article[1]. From what I can tell, the context is that he is responding to an alt-right troll commenting in the chat. He appears to be throwing the racially-charged language back at the troll and criticising them for being so disrespectful. From his mocking tone, I did not get the impression that he condoned their prejudice. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74llFWdeKNM&feature=youtu.be&t=4162 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74llFWdeKNM&feature=youtu.be...
- zimpenfish 8y ago
  > He appears to be throwing the racially-charged language back at the troll He seems to be using the N word specifically as a pejorative because they're annoying him. (And then uses "faggot" also as a pejorative because why not?) "White people are meant to be polite and respect each other", combined with the use of the N word towards the commentators, is fairly racially charged, no?
  - nugga 8y ago
    Sargon claims he is using the word in the way described in this stand up comedy routine where Chris Rock (a black person) talks about the difference between 'Black people and niggers' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4 Sargon said something like he was denigrating the 'alt right / nazi trolls' for behaving the way the 'nazis' claim the people they hate behave in.
    - zimpenfish 8y ago
      > Sargon claims Well, of course he does. He'd be stupid not to. But it's very easy to say "ONLY JOKING" whenever you get called on your offensive bullshit that you originally intended.
      - nugga 8y ago
        Yes didn't he say he meant to cause offense? Using that word (or any word) to offend non blacks does not somehow cause it to grow tentacles and attack every black person alive. Context and intent matters and I don't think you or anyone else gets to make that call on "hidden motives" or effects beyond what is stated on record.

aestetix 8y ago

> Some people worry that we are reviewing content not posted on Patreon. As a funding platform, we don’t host much content, but we help fund creations across the internet. As a result, we review creations posted on other platforms that are funded through Patreon. So if I want to get someone suspended, I dig through their history, find an instance where they used a word ten years ago that has now become "hate speech", create my own Patreon, and post their comments in my Patreon?

cm2187 8y ago
Also in an interview a year ago [1], Patreon's CEO explicitely promised they would not do what they just did. But in this case they are characterising as hate speech the simple use of slang, even when there is no hateful intention. This is just the political correctness ayatollahs becoming over-zealous, which I find hard to justify and certainly won't support with my money. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw

anfilt 8y ago

Man, I read some of the comments on that article it makes it seem like patreaon made a mistake. Although, it's just internet comments, but the fact patreaon has posted about it themselves makes me go hmm... Not sure of the whole story, but when a company makes a response like that it screams damage control to me. The comments the article did highlight do seem pretty blunt, but for a company to respond openly like this makes it seem like there is more to it than I understand.

raarts 8y ago

People are increasingly withdrawing from Patreon. Earlier Sexy Cyborg was forced off by Vice [1] (they're now trying to push her off SubscribeStar[2]), but very recently people like Jordan Peterson, Quillette, and others are moving away and setting up their own crowdfunding platform [3]. And I fully agree that a crowdfunding platform should not be involved with 'de-platforming'. [1] https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETt5JzufY4&t=0s&list=LLcD8FIJuOWrIHdMKafy_K0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETt5JzufY4&t=0s&list=LLcD8F... [3] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/jordan-peterson-says-hell-launch-patreon-alternative-before-christmas-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/jordan-peterson-says-hell...

SkeptinenSpede5 8y ago

Ban everybody who do not agree with mainstream ideology please. It's one and only truth. Google is not evil and Facebook and Twitter are build freedom of speech in mind

GreaterFool 8y ago

I think this is just the straw that broke the camel's back. This sort of thing has been happening for a while. I recall a story where someone's account somewhere was closed because Visa or MasterCard (credit card company!) complained about what they said online. Financial companies have too much power. They always had. But right now they started exercising it in a way that is very worrisome. Banks can close your account for no reason. PayPal can close your account for no reason. Visa or MasterCard can stop doing business with you for no reason. And what are you going to do then? There's a global "war on cash". Anything beyond few hundred $ is hard to get. Try to deposit it in a bank and they'll ask you million questions about where it's from and what are you going to use it for. Try to withdraw it and you'll raise some flags.

dtoc 8y ago
Maybe cryptocurrencies will have some real-world value after all!