8 ms·

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Inter

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

praptak 8y ago
Maybe Chinese people could take it up with their government?
- matz1 8y ago
  Maybe google could simply fire those who oppose ?
- sparkie 8y ago
  Chinese cannot even type "I disagree" on social media without it being censored. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJc4KgBCdoM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJc4KgBCdoM
wnevets 8y ago
with all of the human rights violations inside of china like forced labor camps for muslims, having to use baidu hardly seems like a great lost.
darpa_escapee 8y ago
Perhaps Chinese citizens can petition the Chinese Communist Party to foster a better foreign investment environment by putting an immediate end to the forced imprisonment[1], labor[2] and torture[3] of millions of people in China. [1] Tracking China’s Muslim Gulag: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... [2] China’s Detention Camps for Muslims Turn to Forced Labor: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/world/asia/xinjiang-china-forced-labor-camps-uighurs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/world/asia/xinjiang-china... [3] Woman describes torture, beatings in Chinese detention camp: https://www.apnews.com/61cdf7f5dfc34575aa643523b3c6b3fe https://www.apnews.com/61cdf7f5dfc34575aa643523b3c6b3fe
snaky 8y ago
Maybe that's an opportunity for Yandex https://yandex.ru/jobs/vacancies/global/head_chinaoperations/ https://yandex.ru/jobs/vacancies/global/head_chinaoperations...
- whoisjuan 8y ago
  How good is Yandex indexing and search technology?...My guess is that probably not even close to Google, and heavily optimized for slavic inflections and cyrilic.
  - snaky 8y ago
    Why do you think so? Yandex has 2% search market share in South Korea, that's not big but Baidu has less than 5% there, so it's comparable.
    - DenisM 8y ago
      I heard that nowadays search engine quality is largely determined by traffic that's used to infer relevance from user behavior. Less traffic - less quality. Bing, for example, has decent engineers, but since Google is already ahead it will stay ahead if only just for that reason. So I was told. So Yandex doesn't have that much hope outside of Russia. Unless a dramatic breakthrough is made, of course.
    - summerlight 8y ago
      I am not aware of any single South Korean who has used either Yandex or Baidu. They don't even support Korean at all, so why would any Korean bother to use them? Very interested in the source of your statistics, which I guess completely incorrect. http://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/south-korea http://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/sou... https://www.opensurvey.co.kr/blog/trendreport/sns_2018/ https://www.opensurvey.co.kr/blog/trendreport/sns_2018/ http://www.internettrend.co.kr/trendForward.tsp http://www.internettrend.co.kr/trendForward.tsp As far as I know, there's no report which shows Yandex's significance in South Korean search engine market share.
jjcc 8y ago
Agree. A lot of Chinese like Google more than Baidu but they have no choice. I have no problem to use Google as I'm now in China but a lot of normal people don't know how to get around GFW.
- ngcc_hk 8y ago
  It is illegal. That is the essence of rule by law ....
QML 8y ago
Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition is only coming from Americans... oddly enough.
- ngcc_hk 8y ago
  Come from Hong Kong as well. Please do not help a totalitarian state.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  This is an unfair argument because it's not a matter of 'culture' it's a broader set of ethical issues at stake. The Chinese are putting people into concentration camps on the basis of their ethnicity or religion, many are dying and their organs are being harvested. If the Western press weren't so hypocritically afraid of speaking out - this would be a huge global story, it's a really big deal. This is getting into holocaust territory in 2018 for gosh sakes. And it's definitely more than Americans speaking out.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    I think pointing to different culture and history is a valid point of discussion. The point of view of a lot of the mainland Chinese people I've spoken to is that the post-Mao CCP has done a lot of bad, but also an immense amount of good for China as a whole. Compare the modern CCP with all of China's past governments of the last two centuries, and it's unambiguously better than Mao, the warlords, or the late Quing dynasty. Sure, maybe China would have been better off if the KMT won the civil war, but we can't change history. The history of what did happen is that after Mao the country went from struggling to feed most of it's people to what is likely the 2nd most powerful country on Earth. It went from GDP per capitalism of $1,000 in 1970 to $8,000 in 2010. China singlehandedly halved global poverty in doing so. While some of it's actions are appalling to foreigners, they are tolerated for historical reasons. E.g. distrust of organized religion stems from repeated religious rebellions that killed tens of millions of people, so many Chinese see the suppression of religion as a necessary measure to ensure social order. In that sense many Chinese have the same underlying ethical framework (don't needlessly cause harm, try to better the lives of everyday people, etc.), but the lessons history taught the country means that they pursue these ideals in a different way, and opt to make different tradeoffs when balancing different needs. While I am indeed apalled by some of the CCP's actions, I can empathize to a degree as to why Chinese people would still have a positive view of it overall. Of course, this is coming from a Westerner summarizing my interactions so it obviously risks putting words in other people's mouths.
logicchains 8y ago
It could be worse. At least Bing is still in China, although I don't know any locals who use it.
pimmen 8y ago
This is just one of many great losses for the Chinese people brought on by the Chinese government. Their government enjoys the benefits of permanent UN Security Council membership but don't respect the very human rights this organization works to uphold. This makes China a less attractive place to do business in. So, if the Chinese people are so concerned about attracting Google, they could maybe understand that they need to change their government into something that respects human rights.

praptak 8y ago

Maybe Chinese people could take it up with their government?

matz1 8y ago
Maybe google could simply fire those who oppose ?
sparkie 8y ago
Chinese cannot even type "I disagree" on social media without it being censored. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJc4KgBCdoM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJc4KgBCdoM

wnevets 8y ago

with all of the human rights violations inside of china like forced labor camps for muslims, having to use baidu hardly seems like a great lost.

darpa_escapee 8y ago

Perhaps Chinese citizens can petition the Chinese Communist Party to foster a better foreign investment environment by putting an immediate end to the forced imprisonment[1], labor[2] and torture[3] of millions of people in China. [1] Tracking China’s Muslim Gulag: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... [2] China’s Detention Camps for Muslims Turn to Forced Labor: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/world/asia/xinjiang-china-forced-labor-camps-uighurs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/world/asia/xinjiang-china... [3] Woman describes torture, beatings in Chinese detention camp: https://www.apnews.com/61cdf7f5dfc34575aa643523b3c6b3fe https://www.apnews.com/61cdf7f5dfc34575aa643523b3c6b3fe

snaky 8y ago

Maybe that's an opportunity for Yandex https://yandex.ru/jobs/vacancies/global/head_chinaoperations/ https://yandex.ru/jobs/vacancies/global/head_chinaoperations...

whoisjuan 8y ago
How good is Yandex indexing and search technology?...My guess is that probably not even close to Google, and heavily optimized for slavic inflections and cyrilic.
- snaky 8y ago
  Why do you think so? Yandex has 2% search market share in South Korea, that's not big but Baidu has less than 5% there, so it's comparable.
  - DenisM 8y ago
    I heard that nowadays search engine quality is largely determined by traffic that's used to infer relevance from user behavior. Less traffic - less quality. Bing, for example, has decent engineers, but since Google is already ahead it will stay ahead if only just for that reason. So I was told. So Yandex doesn't have that much hope outside of Russia. Unless a dramatic breakthrough is made, of course.
  - summerlight 8y ago
    I am not aware of any single South Korean who has used either Yandex or Baidu. They don't even support Korean at all, so why would any Korean bother to use them? Very interested in the source of your statistics, which I guess completely incorrect. http://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/south-korea http://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/sou... https://www.opensurvey.co.kr/blog/trendreport/sns_2018/ https://www.opensurvey.co.kr/blog/trendreport/sns_2018/ http://www.internettrend.co.kr/trendForward.tsp http://www.internettrend.co.kr/trendForward.tsp As far as I know, there's no report which shows Yandex's significance in South Korean search engine market share.

jjcc 8y ago

Agree. A lot of Chinese like Google more than Baidu but they have no choice. I have no problem to use Google as I'm now in China but a lot of normal people don't know how to get around GFW.

ngcc_hk 8y ago
It is illegal. That is the essence of rule by law ....

QML 8y ago

Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition is only coming from Americans... oddly enough.

ngcc_hk 8y ago
Come from Hong Kong as well. Please do not help a totalitarian state.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
This is an unfair argument because it's not a matter of 'culture' it's a broader set of ethical issues at stake. The Chinese are putting people into concentration camps on the basis of their ethnicity or religion, many are dying and their organs are being harvested. If the Western press weren't so hypocritically afraid of speaking out - this would be a huge global story, it's a really big deal. This is getting into holocaust territory in 2018 for gosh sakes. And it's definitely more than Americans speaking out.
- manfredo 8y ago
  I think pointing to different culture and history is a valid point of discussion. The point of view of a lot of the mainland Chinese people I've spoken to is that the post-Mao CCP has done a lot of bad, but also an immense amount of good for China as a whole. Compare the modern CCP with all of China's past governments of the last two centuries, and it's unambiguously better than Mao, the warlords, or the late Quing dynasty. Sure, maybe China would have been better off if the KMT won the civil war, but we can't change history. The history of what did happen is that after Mao the country went from struggling to feed most of it's people to what is likely the 2nd most powerful country on Earth. It went from GDP per capitalism of $1,000 in 1970 to $8,000 in 2010. China singlehandedly halved global poverty in doing so. While some of it's actions are appalling to foreigners, they are tolerated for historical reasons. E.g. distrust of organized religion stems from repeated religious rebellions that killed tens of millions of people, so many Chinese see the suppression of religion as a necessary measure to ensure social order. In that sense many Chinese have the same underlying ethical framework (don't needlessly cause harm, try to better the lives of everyday people, etc.), but the lessons history taught the country means that they pursue these ideals in a different way, and opt to make different tradeoffs when balancing different needs. While I am indeed apalled by some of the CCP's actions, I can empathize to a degree as to why Chinese people would still have a positive view of it overall. Of course, this is coming from a Westerner summarizing my interactions so it obviously risks putting words in other people's mouths.

logicchains 8y ago

It could be worse. At least Bing is still in China, although I don't know any locals who use it.

pimmen 8y ago

This is just one of many great losses for the Chinese people brought on by the Chinese government. Their government enjoys the benefits of permanent UN Security Council membership but don't respect the very human rights this organization works to uphold. This makes China a less attractive place to do business in. So, if the Chinese people are so concerned about attracting Google, they could maybe understand that they need to change their government into something that respects human rights.