3 ms·

Seems to be missing the fact that if you are unable to handle stressful situations you have no business being a police officer in the first place. Becoming a

Seems to be missing the fact that if you are unable to handle stressful situations you have no business being a police officer in the first place. Becoming a police officer is akin to stating: "I will approach confrontations level-headed and try to deescalate" and I'm sure police officers receive training to that end as well.

iseeyoubydesign 8y ago
"stressful situations" ... then you do it
vorpalhex 8y ago
Nobody is prepared to handle life-or-death stressful situations. Training at least makes those experiences less terrible, but the only life-or-death stress response you have born in you is your fight-or-flight meant to ward off primarily large predators.
- lostmyoldone 8y ago
  I don't know about that, while there might be some kinds of life-or-death situations that nobody can handle, there seems to be plenty of people that is as capable of handling some life-or-death situations better than I handle grocery shopping.
- aqme28 8y ago
  Sure, no one is fully equipped to handle the moment of their death, but that's not what is being talked about here. Training should equip officers for the not-uncommon case when a suspect has a knife but is otherwise nonthreatening.
  - vorpalhex 8y ago
    > when a suspect has a knife but is otherwise nonthreatening A knife is a deadly weapon. Even a non-deadly strike from a knife means a loss of organs (lung puncture, liver intrusion), limbs, facial tissue, eyes, etc. If someone is threatening with a knife (attacking cop cars, etc), especially if they are not acting entirely sanely, they are an active life-or-death threat and yes, you might absolutely be walking into the moments before your death. Even if you have a gun, you have at best a few heartbeats to make a judgement call if they decide to lunge for you. Especially if your firearm is in it's holster, in the time it takes for an attacker to lunge at you, you need to: 1. Establish a positive grip on the firearm 2. Defeat any safety measures on the holster (snaps, buttons, interlocks) 3. Clear the holster with a duty sized firearm 4. Draw firearm to combat position 5. Secure off hand grip to firearm 6. Obtain sight picture 7. Check target and backstop 8. Squeeze trigger The person who intends to kill you meanwhile needs to do the following: 1. Lunge forward with knife angled outwards If it's available in your area, I recommend taking a use-of-force seminar and seeing how well you do with the above kind of scenario.
    - jki275 8y ago
      21 foot rule.
    - aqme28 8y ago
      None of that is relevant here. This was a man _walking away_ with his back turned. That's what I meant by nonthreatening.
      - vorpalhex 8y ago
        If someone threatens your life with a deadly weapon, the fact that they've turned their back for a moment and headed towards other people (innocent people, your comrades, etc) doesn't make them not a threat anymore. As a police officer, you have an obligation to keep the public safe, and that includes from knife wielding nutcases. Yes, it'd be great if cops could bear hug everyone into submission, but that's not the reality of the situation.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
trhway 8y ago
For example there are medical tests for pilots and other professions where the lives depend on sound mental and physical health of the operator. The same should be for police - can't handle the stress, got overflooded with stress hormones so that mental function drops below threshold - you dont get the right to kill. Carrying the gun knowing that stress severe impairs your perception and executive function means negligently putting public in danger akin to drunk driving.
alistairSH 8y ago
My similar thought... isn't this an argument to disarm police officers? If their brains turn them into killers, take away the tool they use to commit the killing. Police isn't even one of the top-10 most dangerous jobs - they're beaten out by auto service supervisors (not even the guy with the wrench!) and airline pilots.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >they're beaten out by auto service supervisors Being a supervisor where work involving heavy equipment is happening is can be more dangerous because you're not as familiar with all the heavy equipment around you and depending on how much of an ass you are or aren't your team might not be comfortable speaking up when you do dumb things. It definitely depends on the supervisor though. That said, the numbers don't lie. Policing is not nearly as dangerous as it is made out to be.
alistairSH 8y ago
I'm sure police officers receive training to that end as well You would be mistaken in that assumption. Police in the US receive a fraction of the training provided to their counterparts in Germany and the UK. This is across the board, all types of training. They receive even less deescalation training, and in fact sometimes receive the exact opposite (training akin to "police as warrior").

iseeyoubydesign 8y ago

"stressful situations" ... then you do it

vorpalhex 8y ago

Nobody is prepared to handle life-or-death stressful situations. Training at least makes those experiences less terrible, but the only life-or-death stress response you have born in you is your fight-or-flight meant to ward off primarily large predators.

lostmyoldone 8y ago
I don't know about that, while there might be some kinds of life-or-death situations that nobody can handle, there seems to be plenty of people that is as capable of handling some life-or-death situations better than I handle grocery shopping.
aqme28 8y ago
Sure, no one is fully equipped to handle the moment of their death, but that's not what is being talked about here. Training should equip officers for the not-uncommon case when a suspect has a knife but is otherwise nonthreatening.
- vorpalhex 8y ago
  > when a suspect has a knife but is otherwise nonthreatening A knife is a deadly weapon. Even a non-deadly strike from a knife means a loss of organs (lung puncture, liver intrusion), limbs, facial tissue, eyes, etc. If someone is threatening with a knife (attacking cop cars, etc), especially if they are not acting entirely sanely, they are an active life-or-death threat and yes, you might absolutely be walking into the moments before your death. Even if you have a gun, you have at best a few heartbeats to make a judgement call if they decide to lunge for you. Especially if your firearm is in it's holster, in the time it takes for an attacker to lunge at you, you need to: 1. Establish a positive grip on the firearm 2. Defeat any safety measures on the holster (snaps, buttons, interlocks) 3. Clear the holster with a duty sized firearm 4. Draw firearm to combat position 5. Secure off hand grip to firearm 6. Obtain sight picture 7. Check target and backstop 8. Squeeze trigger The person who intends to kill you meanwhile needs to do the following: 1. Lunge forward with knife angled outwards If it's available in your area, I recommend taking a use-of-force seminar and seeing how well you do with the above kind of scenario.
  - jki275 8y ago
    21 foot rule.
  - aqme28 8y ago
    None of that is relevant here. This was a man _walking away_ with his back turned. That's what I meant by nonthreatening.
    - vorpalhex 8y ago
      If someone threatens your life with a deadly weapon, the fact that they've turned their back for a moment and headed towards other people (innocent people, your comrades, etc) doesn't make them not a threat anymore. As a police officer, you have an obligation to keep the public safe, and that includes from knife wielding nutcases. Yes, it'd be great if cops could bear hug everyone into submission, but that's not the reality of the situation.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

trhway 8y ago

For example there are medical tests for pilots and other professions where the lives depend on sound mental and physical health of the operator. The same should be for police - can't handle the stress, got overflooded with stress hormones so that mental function drops below threshold - you dont get the right to kill. Carrying the gun knowing that stress severe impairs your perception and executive function means negligently putting public in danger akin to drunk driving.

alistairSH 8y ago

My similar thought... isn't this an argument to disarm police officers? If their brains turn them into killers, take away the tool they use to commit the killing. Police isn't even one of the top-10 most dangerous jobs - they're beaten out by auto service supervisors (not even the guy with the wrench!) and airline pilots.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>they're beaten out by auto service supervisors Being a supervisor where work involving heavy equipment is happening is can be more dangerous because you're not as familiar with all the heavy equipment around you and depending on how much of an ass you are or aren't your team might not be comfortable speaking up when you do dumb things. It definitely depends on the supervisor though. That said, the numbers don't lie. Policing is not nearly as dangerous as it is made out to be.

alistairSH 8y ago

I'm sure police officers receive training to that end as well You would be mistaken in that assumption. Police in the US receive a fraction of the training provided to their counterparts in Germany and the UK. This is across the board, all types of training. They receive even less deescalation training, and in fact sometimes receive the exact opposite (training akin to "police as warrior").