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Inventor May Have Cured Motion Sickness Without Drugs
- starbeast 8y agoI've been wondering for a while if you could overwrite the signal on the vestibular nerve. This just drowns it in noise, but presumably it should be possible to electrically excite the same fibers with a signal that matches what you are seeing. I have heard that they do something similar already in medicine for helping people with balance problems caused by the inner ear, though I gather it has to be tweaked patient by patient.
- jonshariat 8y agoAnother article hiding the main information in a wall of text. Here is the relevant information for those interested: ""Enter a young inventor named Samuel Owen, who has developed a prototype device called the OtoTech, from Otolith Labs. Worn on a headband behind the ear, it uses subtle vibrations to change the way the brain computes the fact that the body that it’s attached to is in motion. Early tests show it relieves motion sickness without the side effects of drugs, Owen said, though he admits the science is so young that it’s not clear just how. The vibrations emanating from the OtoTech gently target two of the four fibers that carry data about body motion to the brain via a system of inner ear sensors called the vestibulocochlear nerve. “Two [of the four vestibulocochlear nerve fibers] go to the brain, two go to your reflexes,” Owen said. The trick is to affect the former and not the latter. “The working hypothesis is that [the vibration] causes a chaotic and noninformative stimulus to go to the brain. Somewhere, probably the cerebellum, there’s a filtering mechanism that filters out noninformative sensed information. It’s the reason you don’t notice the shirt on your back right now,” he said. In other words, while you remain consciously aware that you’re moving, the balance portion of your brain stops noticing the fact; the data has been drowned out in white noise from the device.""
- hinkley 8y agoI found that for myself and for a bunch of friends that chewing gum accomplished this. Discovered this on a fairly bumpy flight, (gum is lousy for ear pressure imbalances but I carry it anyway). After that I began experimenting on others and it usually worked for them too.
- magic_beans 8y agoChewing gum also helps to minimize crying while cutting onions.
- hinkley 8y agoSo does sharpening your knife.
- gweinberg 8y agoIt's funny, I don't remember hearing this before, but once you point it out it seems mind-bogglingly obvious.
- hinkley 8y agoThere's a kitchen skills book whose title is a nod to sharp knife = less crying relationship but I'm stumped trying to remember what it's called.
- baddox 8y agoThis is the top Google result for "sharp knife = less crying": https://www.amazon.com/Sharper-Your-Knife-Less-You/dp/0143114131 https://www.amazon.com/Sharper-Your-Knife-Less-You/dp/014311...
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y agoPretty sure this doesn’t work when you are cutting 5kg of onions
- bobwaycott 8y ago> It’s the reason you don’t notice the shirt on your back right now... It never ceases to amuse and sometimes amaze me how statements like this immediately arrest my attention to the thing I’ve not noticed at all. Now I’m only thinking about the shirt on my back, trying to notice it, and thinking of how I haven’t felt it since I first pulled it on this morning.
- pepelotas 8y agoSame thing but the other way. Sometimes my shirts touching my belly cause me discomfort for some reason. Now I can blame my perhaps faulty cerebellum for not filtering it out.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 8y agoIf you liked the T-shirt trick, follow my instructions: Take a deep breath in. Breath out. You are breathing manually now. Don’t forget that at all times you are only two minutes away from asphyxiation.
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- mcbuilder 8y agoIt's always struck me as curious that some game engines cause greater motion sickness that others, despite being similar. For instance I can play UT 2004 and HL1 based engines all day, but put me in front of a Source engine game and I want to barf after 15 minutes. Doom 1 engine makes me nauseous, but Build engine not so. Obviously it's the way my particular brain is picking up on the subtles cues from the engine, so I'd love to be able to strap something on my head and be able to enjoy more titles.
- yupmat 8y agoI too have wondered this! In fact, Doom 1 was the only game to ever make me throw up (9 or 10 years old at the time). Despite playing all kinds of games comfortably, Half-Life 2 makes me nauseated. For some reason I've associated the sounds of those games to the sick feeling. I've always wondered if the sound has anything to do with it OR if my brain is just reminded by the sounds and is trying to warn me "I've been sick here".
- ZeikJT 8y agoI would assume your latter conclusion is probably right, but the former would be more interesting!
- adamcook 8y agoThat is fascinating. Have you eliminated framerate and field of view as possible causes? Have you tried comparing Counter Strike and Counter Strike: Source?
- theandrewbailey 8y agoIf I feel nauseated during a game, I look for some way to increase the field of view. That always does the trick for me.
- bearforcenine 8y agoSeveral years ago, I ran into the exact same nausea with the Source engine as the GP, but when I increased the FOV the problem went away. I've run into nausea with other games that have a narrow FOV. Increasing the FOV (when possible) usually fixes the problem. As far as I understand, the late Total Biscuit was similar. He frequently advocated for FOV sliders in games. I greatly appreciate his help making FOV sliders more popular.
- chris_overseas 8y agoFollowup comments from the inventor are here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/9ywify/inventor_may_have_cured_motion_sickness_without/eac264j/?st=jpsqeepk&sh=26c8eb62 https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/9ywify/inventor_may... (found via the Oculus Go article comments from earlier today, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18696840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18696840 )
- chime 8y agoI wonder if this can explain the trick I learned on reddit on how to relieve the ringing-tone (tinnitus) by snapping your fingers on to your skull: https://np.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/3l3uri/these_guys_lighting_a_mortar_shell_in_their_garage/cv3474n/ https://np.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/3l3uri/these_guys_light... In other words, can percussion on the back of your head somehow reset/affect the nerves deep inside your head that send signals from your ear to your brain? For tinnitus, it's the audio signal. For motion-sickness, it's the balance signal.
- btym 8y agoI always assumed that the loud noise reduces sensitivity, tuning out some quiet signals like tinnitus. Same thing as not being able to hear well after a loud concert.
- Valmar 8y agoA few grams of whole ginger root is great for motion sickness, and the side effects are little more than a mild burning sensation in the gut. It completely kills any horrible car sickness I get from any small motions.
- cwkoss 8y agoMythbusters found ginger is more effective than any other OTC motion sickness cure.
- Nomentatus 8y agoIt is a remarkably powerful antihistamine - of drug-like strength.
- cwkoss 8y agoInteresting, I wonder if it would also work for itchiness.
- stuff4ben 8y agonot sure why this is getting voted down. Personally candied ginger works for me, although I can't stop eating them...
- stouset 8y agoThis works for me as well, to a level that's just shy of magic. I assumed it was just a folk remedy that had little scientific backing, but decided to give it a shot when the Mythbusters ran a double-blind experiment that showed it to be extremely effective. I gave it a try, and at this point wouldn't bother with anything else.
- mattigames 8y agoThis study seems to back that up, at least for reducing vomiting and cold-sweating, not so much for vertigo and nausea: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3277342 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3277342
- 8y ago
- coverband 8y agoI thought the Sea-Band Wristband[0] type of products already went there, even for morning sickness relief? [0] https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/sea-band-wristband/ID=prod2662944-product https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/sea-band-wristband/ID=prod...
- Thlom 8y agoI’ve tried these on my kids and first thought it worked, but next time we went for a long drive it didn’t work at all. Difficult to really test these things on kids as sometimes we can drive for hours with no issues, while other times they puke after 20 minutes ...
- Retra 8y agoWhy would those work?
- jimnotgym 8y agoMy son said, "how do these work, is it just the placebo effect?". I replied that why would it matter if it was a placebo, as long as it worked? But they did work, and he seemed happy enough conning himself.
- Retra 8y agoI'm not your son. That you've found an explanation to convince a child to stop asking questions isn't exactly relevant to me.
- giarc 8y agoAnother recent invention to help with motion sickness. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/could-these-glasses-cure-your-motion-sickness-180969722/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/could-these-glasse... The glasses are quite expensive (for something you would never wear outside of the car).
- mrfusion 8y agoYou could make those pretty easily. I wonder if the peripheral ones are really necessary?
- mhb 8y agoAnd despite the claim, they are not a new invention - Anti-sea sickness googles and glasses have been around for almost a decade http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2017/04/anti-sea-sickness-glasses/ http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2017/04/anti-sea-sickness-glasses...
- tk75x 8y agoThere are also these: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/13/citroen-seetroen-glasses-cure-car-sickness/ https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/13/citroen-seetroen-glasses...
- craftinator 8y ago“The availability of immersive learning environments like virtual-augmented-mixed reality afforded by commercial off-the-shelf technology fosters has the potential to create the paradigm shift necessary to deliver the most ready force ever known,” said Lt. Col. Matthew Strohmeyer. Ya know what else will create the paradigm shift to deliver the most ready force ever known? Fire this asshat and promote someone who can speak meaningful sentences. After a decade in the Marine Corps, I continue to be amazed by the non-speak these officers use to cover their incompetence.
- pizza 8y agoHe talks like how 'enterprise' (read: extremely over-designed) software reads, lol.
- shaki-dora 8y agoIt's somewhat overwrought, but there actually is some signal in that noise: - Using off-the-shelf products, instead of bespoke projects. That was historically somewhat rare in the military, I believe? - "virtual-augmented-mixed reality" seems to be intended to make people think about more than just "virtual" reality, which is a somewhat tired concept - "most ready force" is a reflection of the military's priorities (not winning world wars, but being flexible) - "paradigm shift" Ok, I don't have much of an excuse for that one Overall, I think there's a lot to unpack in that sentence. And I would struggle to repackage it in anything less than a paragraph, or a list as above.
- cr0sh 8y agoThis is an interesting take on the technology of vestibular stimulation. Something to keep in mind is that this technology has been around for a while in the medical field for treatment of balance disorders. Also - I recall back in the very early 2000s there was a company that came out with a vestibular stimulation system for VR use - the idea was to induce the feeling of motion. You could plug it into your computer, and it had a Windows API that you could control it with. They were still in a development phase; you could purchase a device and the API for developing with - it wasn't a retail product at the time. Ultimately, the dot-com crash took them out and they disappeared before they really got off the ground (also, VR was in it's "winter" - that didn't help).
- Shorel 8y agoThat's super interesting to me. Do you have any idea of what principles were applied or if they have any patents related to that technology?
- rizwan 8y agoI attended SIGGRAPH 2005, and there was a group in the booths that had some headset you would put on that would alter your balance to make you walk in different directions. They had a video playing if someone walking with this device and blind folds on, and someone with a joystick could turn them left and right. Looked it up and it appears to be a similar type of technology: Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1187315 https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1187315
- wheels 8y agoA little of an aside: I've often wondered if motion sickness is less prevalent in populations that got to their current locations largely by long ship rides (i.e. most Americans). These days sea sickness is a mild inconvenience, but I would imagine that in the 1700s, constantly vomiting for several weeks would reduce one's chances of passing on their genes.
- UnFleshedOne 8y agoSounds legit, few million years of going on a long ship ride as a rite of passage (get it?) would do that.
- nuguy 8y agoWell, I never thought I would change my position on VR but here we are. If this works it will make VR viable. It’s so disappointing to remember the hype in 2012 and then look at VR in 2018 only to see an anemic library of titles, little adoption, and not much improvement of the actual headsets. It’s pathetic. I’ve heard of some headsets in the pipes that are supposed to actually be good. Extremely high resolution and full field of view coverage are absolutely required. There is no technological limit that is stopping a headset like that from existing, and yet it doesn’t. Pimax maybe. Am I missing one? If you control motion sickness and have a headset like I described above, then you have a minimum viable system. Going beyond that, we need non-discreet light fields and perfect body motion capturing.
- max76 8y ago> Extremely high resolution and full field of view coverage are absolutely required. There is no technological limit that is stopping a headset like that from existing, and yet it doesn’t. GPUs are the technological limit. The Vive and Rift push 2160 x 1200 pixels at 90Hz. 90Hz is the bare minimum speed for VR. Nvidia's new RTX 2080 Ti (retail $1,200) cannot maintain 90Hz at 3840x2160 in most games. Two in SLI probably could, but that is much more expensive than the original Vive/Rift CV1 GPU requirements were. We are several generations of GPUs away from being able to double the VR resolution while maintaining 90Hz for less than $600 worth of hardware.
- nuguy 8y agoJust because a headset has high resolution and therefore complete fov coverage and no screen door, does not mean that it has to be utilized. If someone has a weak computer they can render a lower resolution and smaller area and scale it. Every headset should be capable of high resolution because anything less than that is not compelling vr. Multiple gpus is fine.
- TipVFL 8y agoWe're getting very close to high quality and inexpensive eye-tracking technology that will make it cheap and easy to implement foveated rendering in VR headsets (basically, only rendering high quality where your eye is looking in a completely unnoticeable manner). That will really drop the hardware requirements and make high field of view/high resolution headsets totally doable. It's an exciting time for VR.
- samstave 8y agoI really would like to know what these would feel like while one is in a sensory deprivation tank. Or - what impact they have on deaf people (Specifically the idea of the vibrations hitting parts of the inner ear - if external vibratory stimulations have any impact in both of the above scenarios)
- techdragon 8y agoThere is a whole pile of research out there into deaf people and motion sickness. The most interesting being that hearing loss due to certain kinds of nerve damage can result in basically becoming immune to motion sickness. I’m struggling to find the exact citation I want to share (I read it several years ago now) at the moment, but I read about it while I was researching into the early days of space flight, if I recall it came off of the early research as a result of following up what was the cause of one test subject being utterly immune to any attempt to make him motion sick. The end result being not very useful for the practical aspects of spaceflight, but ending up with the discovery that a group of people with a specific type of auditory nerve damage are basically 100% immune to motion sickness is certainly an interesting result in terms of understanding the cause of motion sickness.
- ron_ej 8y agoInteresting. I am deaf, thanks to tumors on the auditory/vestibular nerves and do experience pretty bad loss of balance issues, to the point where people often think I am walking around drunk when I am not :) But I can't remember ever experiencing motion sickness! Time to apply to NASA I guess.
- budadre75 8y agoI must try this. I've always had serious 3D motion sickness, I was just looking at a friend playing Monster Hunter World for like 30 minutes and got sick. And then I just couldn't look at the game screen anymore, it would inflict sickness instantly. This is not even VR.
- maleta 8y ago...And That Could Mean a Lot to the US Military, well yes because US Military travels around a globe very often. :\
- n4kana 8y agoNoticed in the materials for the product: "Nearly Silent (<50dB)". Seems like bogus copy - for every broadband acoustic measure of dB I'm aware of 50 dB would be very non-silent.