7 ms·

I just wonder how our ancestors did it. Not only did they survive without plastic bottles, but they even survived the last 99.99% of biological history without

I just wonder how our ancestors did it. Not only did they survive without plastic bottles, but they even survived the last 99.99% of biological history without plumbing! I drives me mad. We solved the problem over a century ago. The ancient Greeks and Romans even solved it in their time. The problem was reinvented by marketing, and everyone fell for it, to the point that kids are told to take plastic water bottles to school (despite the existence of water taps there), and public announcements at train and tube stations warn people not to travel without a plastic bottle, in case they have to survive without a sip of water for an hour. It's like we're all living in the Sahara desert. It's insane. From a marketing PoV it must be the single most successful campaign in history. And given its success, and massive profits, they should be the ones whom foot the bill for cleaning up the godawful mess they've created.

petermcneeley 8y ago
I agree with you however as "moonka" says below there are some legit problems with tap water in certain areas. Not to mention that they have basically removed public water fountains from most locations.
- 3chelon 8y ago
  Sure, I know there are entire continents where the water is unsafe to drink; my point is about the developed world where we largely solved the problem and then unsolved it again. Your point about removing drinking fountains is a case in point.
  - petermcneeley 8y ago
    Ya its all part of a larger discussion about the disappearance of the Public Good. Capitalism replacing common utility.
    - 3chelon 8y ago
      I'm all for capitalism. But punitive taxation can be used very effectively to reign in unbridled capitalism. Taxing plastic production, and properly rewarding recycling or reuse schemes would be have a pretty big impact to the bottom lines of some companies and I think we'd be amazed by how quick they solved the problem.
      - petermcneeley 8y ago
        Ya but the problem isnt in the bottles. The problem is that there is a perfectly good existing way to deliver water to peoples homes already. Its just not very profitable. The bottle water companies created a market where none was needed. You could punish them via taxing bottles but I dont know that that is where the problem really is...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
sigstoat 8y ago
> I just wonder how our ancestors did it. Not only did they survive without plastic bottles, but they even survived the last 99.99% of biological history without plumbing! the species survived without those things. plenty of individuals didn't.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- kgwgk 8y ago
  Our ancestors definitely did, at least until puberty.
  - mvid 8y ago
    Survivor bias isn't a great motivator for an individual
  - 3chelon 8y ago
    @kgwgk Exactly, every single one of them survived until they could reproduce, which is no mean feat given the sheer number of individuals involved.
mixmastamyk 8y ago
Almost every village started on a river bank.
PeterisP 8y ago
We can go back to how our ancestors did it, using leather and clay for drink containers. We can spend twice as much transport pollution in order to ship our drinks in clay amphoras that weigh almost as much as their contents, as Romans did; and we can carry around flasks from slaughtered animals instead of recycled plastic. It's possible, but it doesn't mean that it's better.
- undersuit 8y ago
  Why are we wasting our resources carrying around these liquids in individual containers? You want to use facts? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-area-to-volume_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-area-to-volume_ratio We shouldn't be shipping bottles unless we absolutely have too. Ship the liquid in large efficient containers. Wanna go back to the Romans? They weren't shipping little 20oz amphoras enmasse, no they were carrying 41 quarts... apparently that's a standard too. Good job Rome.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 8y ago
> I just wonder how our ancestors did it. Not only did they survive without plastic bottles, but they even survived the last 99.99% of biological history without plumbing! At very low density, applying a very significant fraction of their energy to basic survival needs that we take for granted.

petermcneeley 8y ago

I agree with you however as "moonka" says below there are some legit problems with tap water in certain areas. Not to mention that they have basically removed public water fountains from most locations.

3chelon 8y ago
Sure, I know there are entire continents where the water is unsafe to drink; my point is about the developed world where we largely solved the problem and then unsolved it again. Your point about removing drinking fountains is a case in point.
- petermcneeley 8y ago
  Ya its all part of a larger discussion about the disappearance of the Public Good. Capitalism replacing common utility.
  - 3chelon 8y ago
    I'm all for capitalism. But punitive taxation can be used very effectively to reign in unbridled capitalism. Taxing plastic production, and properly rewarding recycling or reuse schemes would be have a pretty big impact to the bottom lines of some companies and I think we'd be amazed by how quick they solved the problem.
    - petermcneeley 8y ago
      Ya but the problem isnt in the bottles. The problem is that there is a perfectly good existing way to deliver water to peoples homes already. Its just not very profitable. The bottle water companies created a market where none was needed. You could punish them via taxing bottles but I dont know that that is where the problem really is...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

sigstoat 8y ago

> I just wonder how our ancestors did it. Not only did they survive without plastic bottles, but they even survived the last 99.99% of biological history without plumbing! the species survived without those things. plenty of individuals didn't.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kgwgk 8y ago
Our ancestors definitely did, at least until puberty.
- mvid 8y ago
  Survivor bias isn't a great motivator for an individual
- 3chelon 8y ago
  @kgwgk Exactly, every single one of them survived until they could reproduce, which is no mean feat given the sheer number of individuals involved.

mixmastamyk 8y ago

Almost every village started on a river bank.

PeterisP 8y ago

We can go back to how our ancestors did it, using leather and clay for drink containers. We can spend twice as much transport pollution in order to ship our drinks in clay amphoras that weigh almost as much as their contents, as Romans did; and we can carry around flasks from slaughtered animals instead of recycled plastic. It's possible, but it doesn't mean that it's better.

undersuit 8y ago
Why are we wasting our resources carrying around these liquids in individual containers? You want to use facts? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-area-to-volume_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-area-to-volume_ratio We shouldn't be shipping bottles unless we absolutely have too. Ship the liquid in large efficient containers. Wanna go back to the Romans? They weren't shipping little 20oz amphoras enmasse, no they were carrying 41 quarts... apparently that's a standard too. Good job Rome.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dragonwriter 8y ago

> I just wonder how our ancestors did it. Not only did they survive without plastic bottles, but they even survived the last 99.99% of biological history without plumbing! At very low density, applying a very significant fraction of their energy to basic survival needs that we take for granted.