4 ms·

Xobni: Our Path from ‘Wrong Product’ to Killer App

51 points by pbnaidu 18y ago

dshah 18y ago
I'm a big fan of Xobni (the company), but a couple of the points in this article bugged me: 1. There's not clear evidence yet that they've landed on the "killer app". Yes, it's likely more killer (killerer?) than what they started with, but it's too early too tell. Lots of things seem like the killer app, but few are. They may have a couple of iterations left before they hit the true killer app. 2. One of the the stated reasons for not supporting GMail yet is that "Outlook users are more likely to have business credit cards". Although that's true, my guess is that there are enough users on GMail that also have credit cards for it to be interesting. On the other hand, the "are you happy" box is cool.
- utnick 18y ago
  Its also alot easier to write a plugin for outlook ( a desktop program )... than it is to modify the functionality of an existing website that is not yours in a nonbuggy crossplatform way.
  - paul 18y ago
    I bet that you've never written an Outlook plugin :) I'd much rather try to hack Gmail JS, which many people have done, btw (see Remember The Milk for a popular example).
    - natrius 18y ago
      GMail is a moving target and anything that integrates with it is liable to break without notice. Outlook changes once every couple of years and actually has a documented API for integrating with it that is updated when a new version is released (I presume).
      - paul 18y ago
        Having a documented api doesn't make it easy, just ask Xobni. In practice, making a fast and stable Outlook extension is extremely difficult. Also, Gmail actually does have a number of documented and stable hooks for extensions to use.
      - menloparkbum 18y ago
        If enough people star the request ticket for a Gmail gData api, perhaps a xobni style widget for gmail will be easier to build in the future. http://code.google.com/p/gdata-issues/issues/detail?id=271 http://code.google.com/p/gdata-issues/issues/detail?id=271
        kirubakaran 18y ago
        Okay, I did my part.
  - vlad 18y ago
    Desktop software has the benefit of perceived privacy and being easily scalable, as you pay for a filehost and installations are done on each user's computer. However, the problem with this is that once any user sees a bug, screws up their registry, deletes a file, upgrades or installs a Firewall that starts blocking ports or an Anti-Virus program that's over sensitive or slows your application down, installs a new or different Service Pack, then you will receive questions that you now have to answer and debug that have nothing to do with your program. Then you have to create and release an update, making the customer wait, instead of being able to change things on the fly, as is possible with many web app frameworks.
- yariv 18y ago
  I really like Xobni too. I use it at work and it does make Outlook much better -- primary because of the better search and threaded conversations (the social networking and analytics features are less useful for me, though). However, I think Xobni's market is largely hypothetical, and it's not clear how Xobni can make money. The fact that I have a credit card doesn't mean I will use it in Xobni, especially because the app is free and it already solves my Outlook problems. (Btw, I would be happy to pay $20 for Xobni if they charged me for it :) )
- skmurphy 18y ago
  It's tough to keep your own success in perspective. I agree it's not clear that they have a killer app (yet).
Fuca 18y ago
I think these guys will make money, but not as much as the 20m they just turn down. In a year these features will be developed in every email client.
- axod 18y ago
  I'm not sure of what can be added to something like gmail to be honest, Gmail search: fantastic, threaded conversations: fantastic, search for attachments etc: all works fine. For me, Gmail just works great. I'm not really interested in seeing a graph/analytics for emails to be honest. Obviously it makes sense for outlook, since that is a very very painful thing to use, but I'd be surprised if ms don't just fix search and add threaded conversations in the next version.
  - wumi 18y ago
    Xobni search for Outlook is much better than Gmail's native search, and they have no native platform for managing attachments well, which is, imho, one of the value props Xobni has. I don't understand why all focus on the statistics/analytics features. It might be smart of the company to either remove it or minimize its presence because I've seen so many take the route of "analytics? whoop dee doo." Also, if Xobni would like to be a stand-alone email/CRM one day, integration with as many email applications is quite necessary.
    - ashu 18y ago
      The statistics and analytics features serve (IMHO) as initial attraction hooks. For example, a lot of people I know went to GMail because of the 1GB space thing rather than all the revolutionary features inside. They discovered all the goodies only as they started using it. I think a similar thing happens with the colorful graph that Xobni shows. If you think about it, nobody would give a damn about what that graph is showing. But as Gabor points out in the article, if I am passing by, that's the first thing I'd get attracted by. It just looks really really spiffy.
- paul 18y ago
  You are dramatically overestimating the speed with which large products develop (especially Outlook). Even if they started last year, it still wouldn't ship for years.
matth 18y ago
Matt is friends with Natalie Portman? Is this an Easter Egg? ;-)
- aneesh 18y ago
  He also has Will Gates' resume in his recent attachments :)
  - matth 18y ago
    I noticed that as well... And yet, I remain more concerned about Natalie.
vlad 18y ago
I like and have always congratulated Xobni ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6477 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6477 ) but I don't think the product is killer yet (though they might be referring to the stuff they have in development that they can't show to anybody yet.)
maxklein 18y ago
This is just silly. I install xobni, and just like the comments on that site, after a couple of days I was thinking - huh? What does this app do? And how come it swallows so much of my screen real estate. There is space for an outlook plugin, but xobni have just picked a weak product and are getting it installed by effective marketing. Let me make this clear guys: Your product does nothing. It's not useful to me. It's not killer, it's very weak.
- systems 18y ago
  "how come it swallows so much of my screen real estate" I second that,the first thing i do in Outlook, Visual Studio, Eclipse ... is reorganize the panes to maximize the editor area. For oulook this would be the email body and email list
johnyzee 18y ago
I guess with this strategy it helps to have a name that means absolutely nothing ;-)
- maxklein 18y ago
  Inbox backwards.
dmose 18y ago
I don't understand how Xobni helps me? I installed it, I let it index my entire inbox... and .. what now? They should have taken the $20 million.
tak111 18y ago
They had to take the 20 millions. why? 20 millions for an eye candy, that's a lot of money already. IMHO.

51 points by pbnaidu 18y ago

dshah 18y ago

I'm a big fan of Xobni (the company), but a couple of the points in this article bugged me: 1. There's not clear evidence yet that they've landed on the "killer app". Yes, it's likely more killer (killerer?) than what they started with, but it's too early too tell. Lots of things seem like the killer app, but few are. They may have a couple of iterations left before they hit the true killer app. 2. One of the the stated reasons for not supporting GMail yet is that "Outlook users are more likely to have business credit cards". Although that's true, my guess is that there are enough users on GMail that also have credit cards for it to be interesting. On the other hand, the "are you happy" box is cool.

utnick 18y ago
Its also alot easier to write a plugin for outlook ( a desktop program )... than it is to modify the functionality of an existing website that is not yours in a nonbuggy crossplatform way.
- paul 18y ago
  I bet that you've never written an Outlook plugin :) I'd much rather try to hack Gmail JS, which many people have done, btw (see Remember The Milk for a popular example).
  - natrius 18y ago
    GMail is a moving target and anything that integrates with it is liable to break without notice. Outlook changes once every couple of years and actually has a documented API for integrating with it that is updated when a new version is released (I presume).
    - paul 18y ago
      Having a documented api doesn't make it easy, just ask Xobni. In practice, making a fast and stable Outlook extension is extremely difficult. Also, Gmail actually does have a number of documented and stable hooks for extensions to use.
    - menloparkbum 18y ago
      If enough people star the request ticket for a Gmail gData api, perhaps a xobni style widget for gmail will be easier to build in the future. http://code.google.com/p/gdata-issues/issues/detail?id=271 http://code.google.com/p/gdata-issues/issues/detail?id=271
      - kirubakaran 18y ago
        Okay, I did my part.
- vlad 18y ago
  Desktop software has the benefit of perceived privacy and being easily scalable, as you pay for a filehost and installations are done on each user's computer. However, the problem with this is that once any user sees a bug, screws up their registry, deletes a file, upgrades or installs a Firewall that starts blocking ports or an Anti-Virus program that's over sensitive or slows your application down, installs a new or different Service Pack, then you will receive questions that you now have to answer and debug that have nothing to do with your program. Then you have to create and release an update, making the customer wait, instead of being able to change things on the fly, as is possible with many web app frameworks.
yariv 18y ago
I really like Xobni too. I use it at work and it does make Outlook much better -- primary because of the better search and threaded conversations (the social networking and analytics features are less useful for me, though). However, I think Xobni's market is largely hypothetical, and it's not clear how Xobni can make money. The fact that I have a credit card doesn't mean I will use it in Xobni, especially because the app is free and it already solves my Outlook problems. (Btw, I would be happy to pay $20 for Xobni if they charged me for it :) )
skmurphy 18y ago
It's tough to keep your own success in perspective. I agree it's not clear that they have a killer app (yet).

Fuca 18y ago

I think these guys will make money, but not as much as the 20m they just turn down. In a year these features will be developed in every email client.

axod 18y ago
I'm not sure of what can be added to something like gmail to be honest, Gmail search: fantastic, threaded conversations: fantastic, search for attachments etc: all works fine. For me, Gmail just works great. I'm not really interested in seeing a graph/analytics for emails to be honest. Obviously it makes sense for outlook, since that is a very very painful thing to use, but I'd be surprised if ms don't just fix search and add threaded conversations in the next version.
- wumi 18y ago
  Xobni search for Outlook is much better than Gmail's native search, and they have no native platform for managing attachments well, which is, imho, one of the value props Xobni has. I don't understand why all focus on the statistics/analytics features. It might be smart of the company to either remove it or minimize its presence because I've seen so many take the route of "analytics? whoop dee doo." Also, if Xobni would like to be a stand-alone email/CRM one day, integration with as many email applications is quite necessary.
  - ashu 18y ago
    The statistics and analytics features serve (IMHO) as initial attraction hooks. For example, a lot of people I know went to GMail because of the 1GB space thing rather than all the revolutionary features inside. They discovered all the goodies only as they started using it. I think a similar thing happens with the colorful graph that Xobni shows. If you think about it, nobody would give a damn about what that graph is showing. But as Gabor points out in the article, if I am passing by, that's the first thing I'd get attracted by. It just looks really really spiffy.
paul 18y ago
You are dramatically overestimating the speed with which large products develop (especially Outlook). Even if they started last year, it still wouldn't ship for years.

matth 18y ago

Matt is friends with Natalie Portman? Is this an Easter Egg? ;-)

aneesh 18y ago
He also has Will Gates' resume in his recent attachments :)
- matth 18y ago
  I noticed that as well... And yet, I remain more concerned about Natalie.

vlad 18y ago

I like and have always congratulated Xobni ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6477 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6477 ) but I don't think the product is killer yet (though they might be referring to the stuff they have in development that they can't show to anybody yet.)

maxklein 18y ago

This is just silly. I install xobni, and just like the comments on that site, after a couple of days I was thinking - huh? What does this app do? And how come it swallows so much of my screen real estate. There is space for an outlook plugin, but xobni have just picked a weak product and are getting it installed by effective marketing. Let me make this clear guys: Your product does nothing. It's not useful to me. It's not killer, it's very weak.

systems 18y ago
"how come it swallows so much of my screen real estate" I second that,the first thing i do in Outlook, Visual Studio, Eclipse ... is reorganize the panes to maximize the editor area. For oulook this would be the email body and email list

johnyzee 18y ago

I guess with this strategy it helps to have a name that means absolutely nothing ;-)

maxklein 18y ago
Inbox backwards.

dmose 18y ago

I don't understand how Xobni helps me? I installed it, I let it index my entire inbox... and .. what now? They should have taken the $20 million.

tak111 18y ago

They had to take the 20 millions. why? 20 millions for an eye candy, that's a lot of money already. IMHO.