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Capitalism beat Communism in the 80's but it really seems Chinese 2.0 Communism is whipping its butt. I'm very jealous that they get to ride Maglev trains and I

Capitalism beat Communism in the 80's but it really seems Chinese 2.0 Communism is whipping its butt. I'm very jealous that they get to ride Maglev trains and I can't even get high-speed rail. :/ In the future it's going to be good to be Chinese, unless you like Democracy that is.

coughupalung 8y ago
Oh yeah? There are no democratic countries with high speed rail? Hmm... I wonder where the Chinese stole their high speed rail designs from then...
- mikeash 8y ago
  Stole? The ones I’ve ridden on were made by Siemens.
- chillacy 8y ago
  You’re on HN right? As they say in the startup world, it’s all about execution. Sorry Facebook stole your idea, I’m sure they’ll make you ceo when you sue them in the courts
bilbo0s 8y ago
>Capitalism beat Communism in the 80's but it really seems Chinese 2.0 Communism is whipping its butt... In fairness, "Chinese 2.0 Communism", is really just market capitalism.
- jen729w 8y ago
  ...with lax safety standards and little consideration for property rights. We could build the Melbourne - Sydney high speed rail line in 3 years if we didn’t care about a) the people who built it or b) the people whose houses were in the way.
  - FreakyT 8y ago
    The property rights one always bothers me; it seems to me that if you're right where a necessary transport link needs to be, you should of course be fairly compensated, but ultimately you shouldn't have any say/choice in the matter. Ridiculous obstacles like this are, IMO, a major part of why the US is seemingly completely paralyzed when it comes to constructing any major transit projects.
    - richardbrevig 8y ago
      The US government does have the power to seize private property for the public's benefit, it's called Eminent Domain [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain
      - mikeash 8y ago
        One problem is that historically it somehow turned out that poorer, blacker people tended to be the ones in the way of big transportation projects. A lot of the backlash has roots in real abuses.
  - adinobro 8y ago
    Property rights still exist but since it only became a concept about 80 years ago lots of property still belongs to the government and they can generally give you something worth more than your current property.
  - A2017U1 8y ago
    How many would benefit vs how many are inconvenienced? Seems like the beneficiaries easily outnumber the few who lose out.
    - Viliam1234 8y ago
      Another benefit would be that people would pay much greater attention to local politics. You would need to make sure that the bus road goes through your neighbor's house, not your house. Whoever ignores the local democracy, loses their house; that is a powerful incentive for participation. What could possibly go wrong?
- nothrabannosir 8y ago
  Why was this downvoted ? I thought it was common knowledge that the current China is communist only in name, but more capitalist than most western countries in practice? Is it not?
  - eecc 8y ago
    Eh, pretty much Capitalism end game. I'd call it Corporativist Fascism as Mussolini blabbered about.
  - jmartrican 8y ago
    I do not know if centralized planning is capitalism. Beijing decides what need to be done, then they make that happen. It might look like capitalism from afar but it is not. For example, in true capitalism, companies that make money-losing decisions go out of business. In China, the central government does not go out of business and the government owned companies executing those ideas do not go out of business. Having the losers go bankrupt and exit the playing field is an important part of capitalism.
- eecc 8y ago
  In all fairness, this thing in China is more close to Italian Fascism from the '30s...
tossaccount123 8y ago
China isn't communist in anything but name, it's national socialist. They've basically copied Italy and Nazi Germany in terms of economic policy
chillacy 8y ago
It’s State Capitalism. We know it works when the state knows what to do and picks correctly, but when you reach the forefront, it becomes harder to know the path forward and individual businesses incentivized by profit can do a massively parallel search. So goes my thinking. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

coughupalung 8y ago

Oh yeah? There are no democratic countries with high speed rail? Hmm... I wonder where the Chinese stole their high speed rail designs from then...

mikeash 8y ago
Stole? The ones I’ve ridden on were made by Siemens.
chillacy 8y ago
You’re on HN right? As they say in the startup world, it’s all about execution. Sorry Facebook stole your idea, I’m sure they’ll make you ceo when you sue them in the courts

bilbo0s 8y ago

>Capitalism beat Communism in the 80's but it really seems Chinese 2.0 Communism is whipping its butt... In fairness, "Chinese 2.0 Communism", is really just market capitalism.

jen729w 8y ago
...with lax safety standards and little consideration for property rights. We could build the Melbourne - Sydney high speed rail line in 3 years if we didn’t care about a) the people who built it or b) the people whose houses were in the way.
- FreakyT 8y ago
  The property rights one always bothers me; it seems to me that if you're right where a necessary transport link needs to be, you should of course be fairly compensated, but ultimately you shouldn't have any say/choice in the matter. Ridiculous obstacles like this are, IMO, a major part of why the US is seemingly completely paralyzed when it comes to constructing any major transit projects.
  - richardbrevig 8y ago
    The US government does have the power to seize private property for the public's benefit, it's called Eminent Domain [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain
    - mikeash 8y ago
      One problem is that historically it somehow turned out that poorer, blacker people tended to be the ones in the way of big transportation projects. A lot of the backlash has roots in real abuses.
- adinobro 8y ago
  Property rights still exist but since it only became a concept about 80 years ago lots of property still belongs to the government and they can generally give you something worth more than your current property.
- A2017U1 8y ago
  How many would benefit vs how many are inconvenienced? Seems like the beneficiaries easily outnumber the few who lose out.
  - Viliam1234 8y ago
    Another benefit would be that people would pay much greater attention to local politics. You would need to make sure that the bus road goes through your neighbor's house, not your house. Whoever ignores the local democracy, loses their house; that is a powerful incentive for participation. What could possibly go wrong?
nothrabannosir 8y ago
Why was this downvoted ? I thought it was common knowledge that the current China is communist only in name, but more capitalist than most western countries in practice? Is it not?
- eecc 8y ago
  Eh, pretty much Capitalism end game. I'd call it Corporativist Fascism as Mussolini blabbered about.
- jmartrican 8y ago
  I do not know if centralized planning is capitalism. Beijing decides what need to be done, then they make that happen. It might look like capitalism from afar but it is not. For example, in true capitalism, companies that make money-losing decisions go out of business. In China, the central government does not go out of business and the government owned companies executing those ideas do not go out of business. Having the losers go bankrupt and exit the playing field is an important part of capitalism.
eecc 8y ago
In all fairness, this thing in China is more close to Italian Fascism from the '30s...

tossaccount123 8y ago

China isn't communist in anything but name, it's national socialist. They've basically copied Italy and Nazi Germany in terms of economic policy

chillacy 8y ago

It’s State Capitalism. We know it works when the state knows what to do and picks correctly, but when you reach the forefront, it becomes harder to know the path forward and individual businesses incentivized by profit can do a massively parallel search. So goes my thinking. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism