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I wouldn't go that far. I read the article in full, and it's an interesting description of the world behind the things many of us take for granted (Amazon, etc.

I wouldn't go that far. I read the article in full, and it's an interesting description of the world behind the things many of us take for granted (Amazon, etc.) as well as some commentary on the author's own life journey. It sounds like she expected it to be easier to find a REAL job with a degree - teaching, creative writing, etc. - only to be surprised at the lack of opportunities for "non-professional graduates". My parents strongly urged all of their children to pursue professional, specific degrees: engineering, law, medicine, or accounting/finance. They reinforced time and time again that "liberal arts degrees" provided fewer career options, and to put it plainly, that I would probably end up broke if I chosen that path. I don't think they would have provided financial support to study something like, for example, music. Or even psychology, for that matter, unless the goal was to be a PhD/academic. I agree with your points, however, that degrees do not guarantee employment and we should not mislead students. Too many students think "degree = job". Having observed the Norwegian education system from afar (Norwegian mother & family), I advocate the way they do it and the way many Europeans have vocational programs and opportunities for technical training as an alternative to university. Even the janitors in Switzerland may train for as much as 3 years ( see https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/swiss-skills_training-to-be-the-best--champion-apprentices/41043876 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/swiss-skills_training-t... ). Although, I do not know how that would work in the American culture, where tradesmen typically are not respected and do not make as much money as engineers and the like. Income inequality is a much bigger problem here than in some of the Scandinavian and European countries. TLDR: degree != job, if paying for degree, get a technical one (engineering), accounting/finance, or legal/medical. Make good grades. Grades are more important in some professions than others. Don't expect to get a job with a liberal arts degree.

walshemj 8y ago
Not always true a many of the high status high paying jobs out side of tech prefer traditional non STEM degrees. A degree in some of the traditional liberal degrees History, Litrature from good Uni (Ivys' Oxbridge ) is still viable. I used to work (at one of the big publishers) with a younger colleague who had a first from Oxford in English - she has now moved into the City and probably earns as much if not more than some of the developers
- flossball 8y ago
  That is like saying all kids should play basketball because they could get into the NBA. There are always lucky rich people. A ton of Microsoft and Amazon VPs have local MBA degrees. Does that mean that my Seattle City MBA will make me $1 million a year?
  - walshemj 8y ago
    That's not the really same thing I was talking about high paid and high status jobs that almost universally recruit liberal arts grads "like them" from certain universities. The cult of the MBA is a separate thing.
    - flossball 8y ago
      Sorry, that was my point by approaching the 'truth' from both directions. They were already in the class or network of people. They knew they were going to be 'doing that work' because they were already recruited into that world long before university. It has nothing to do with their degree other than a passing qualification that they were expected to receive and in many cases the school just hands them no matter what their grades really were. The degree is a technicality to their position and I am saying that the example you gave while interesting is not normal for anyone planning to work for a living. I worked peripherally to publishing and am quite familiar with the situation. We had $1 million plus commission sales people 'of the right sort'. Did they know what the tech they sold did or have any real sales skills? Did it matter?
- vonseel 8y ago
  Not sure why you were downvoted for this, as you are absolutely correct. One of my "dreams" before becoming a software developer was to work in "finance", i.e. investment banking, and that industry specifically prefers Ivy League education, which typically means liberal arts. That technicality, however, is a fine point in a much larger discussion, and I wasn't going to bring it up for the purpose of this post. I imagine the type of jobs you are talking about, "high-status, high-paying" would place a, for example, state-school Electrical Engineering graduate with good grades higher than a state-school liberal arts graduate. But they will usually rank a Harvard, etc. graduate with a liberal arts degree even higher than the EE graduate. Just my read on how that works. An English degree from <Insert State School> is not perceived the same as an English degree from Oxford or Cambridge.
achillesheels 8y ago
There is a tremendous amount of faux cultural cachet attached to a “college” education in the USA. As if it is a proxy of social status. It is, don’t get me wrong, but if a more granular cultural standard for what education is meritorious - disciplines contra brand name unis - maybe vocational training would be more appetizing.
- vonseel 8y ago
  100%. As a person who has always had some anxiety over peer acceptance, I would have been afraid to pursue a trades job due to rejection from the opposite sex or even peers and family. If you have any single friends who are successful lawyers, you might be surprised how easy they have it on dating apps compared to someone with more normal jobs. I don't think there's an easy answer to changing that social behavior at a massive scale; it's just part of our culture and the only thing we can do is teach our children to be accepting of everyone and that they are free to pursue whatever careers they want without judgement.

walshemj 8y ago

Not always true a many of the high status high paying jobs out side of tech prefer traditional non STEM degrees. A degree in some of the traditional liberal degrees History, Litrature from good Uni (Ivys' Oxbridge ) is still viable. I used to work (at one of the big publishers) with a younger colleague who had a first from Oxford in English - she has now moved into the City and probably earns as much if not more than some of the developers

flossball 8y ago
That is like saying all kids should play basketball because they could get into the NBA. There are always lucky rich people. A ton of Microsoft and Amazon VPs have local MBA degrees. Does that mean that my Seattle City MBA will make me $1 million a year?
- walshemj 8y ago
  That's not the really same thing I was talking about high paid and high status jobs that almost universally recruit liberal arts grads "like them" from certain universities. The cult of the MBA is a separate thing.
  - flossball 8y ago
    Sorry, that was my point by approaching the 'truth' from both directions. They were already in the class or network of people. They knew they were going to be 'doing that work' because they were already recruited into that world long before university. It has nothing to do with their degree other than a passing qualification that they were expected to receive and in many cases the school just hands them no matter what their grades really were. The degree is a technicality to their position and I am saying that the example you gave while interesting is not normal for anyone planning to work for a living. I worked peripherally to publishing and am quite familiar with the situation. We had $1 million plus commission sales people 'of the right sort'. Did they know what the tech they sold did or have any real sales skills? Did it matter?
vonseel 8y ago
Not sure why you were downvoted for this, as you are absolutely correct. One of my "dreams" before becoming a software developer was to work in "finance", i.e. investment banking, and that industry specifically prefers Ivy League education, which typically means liberal arts. That technicality, however, is a fine point in a much larger discussion, and I wasn't going to bring it up for the purpose of this post. I imagine the type of jobs you are talking about, "high-status, high-paying" would place a, for example, state-school Electrical Engineering graduate with good grades higher than a state-school liberal arts graduate. But they will usually rank a Harvard, etc. graduate with a liberal arts degree even higher than the EE graduate. Just my read on how that works. An English degree from <Insert State School> is not perceived the same as an English degree from Oxford or Cambridge.

achillesheels 8y ago

There is a tremendous amount of faux cultural cachet attached to a “college” education in the USA. As if it is a proxy of social status. It is, don’t get me wrong, but if a more granular cultural standard for what education is meritorious - disciplines contra brand name unis - maybe vocational training would be more appetizing.

vonseel 8y ago
100%. As a person who has always had some anxiety over peer acceptance, I would have been afraid to pursue a trades job due to rejection from the opposite sex or even peers and family. If you have any single friends who are successful lawyers, you might be surprised how easy they have it on dating apps compared to someone with more normal jobs. I don't think there's an easy answer to changing that social behavior at a massive scale; it's just part of our culture and the only thing we can do is teach our children to be accepting of everyone and that they are free to pursue whatever careers they want without judgement.